Ameraucana blue x lavender.. why or why not?

[KhalSancho]

Do you have a book of poultry standards of perfection for your country? If you want to breed I highly recommend it. This will describe the visual difference that you look for in each color. Not only that but it will help you choose which birds meet breed type and help you wean out any defects or faults that would make the bird inferior for the breed.

I don’t, but I’m googling now! Lol. Thanks

 

[NNYchick]

I’m not sure about your country, but for the Americans poultry standards are copyright so you might find bits and pieces of someone’s interpretation of it but not the whole standard.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

It will be a little difficult as the two colors (blue and Lav.) can be challenging to tell apart to many people. But it's really not that hard excepting very light blue Blue birds will look like Lavender. That said those birds are poor examples of Blue color so would be culled out with lavender birds anyway.

The standard for Blue is slate blue or another way to visualize it is Pigeon Blue. Lavender is dull grey, no two ways about it. Poor Blue color can look like that hence the difficulty in distinction. What I was saying is Blue has lacing or edging if you will on feather tips. Lavender does not. The standard for all Blue is for lacing and this variety for all breeds needs improvement in lacing. Going forward always use Blue with as much lacing as you can get and that guarantees you are mating Blue.

As for the genetics of what's going on you are starting with Lav and BLue. Lav gene requires both loci to be Lav to express. Blue varieties hatch out Black (no Blue gene), Blue (one blue gene) and Splash (two blue genes). Your F1 generation, first hatch from this pairing, will hatch out 50% black birds and 50% birds expressing blue. All of them will carry one gene of Lavender meaning they are split for Lav.

Mating the best laced blue birds of F1, don't use the parent cock as you feel his body type is lacking, will beget F2 generation. As each F1 bird carries one copy of Lav this will result in 25% offspring carrying no Lav, 25% will express Lav as they have two copies and 50% will still be split for lavender- carry one copy of gene. As you can see it's going to take generations to weed out the Lav completely. But by F4 generation you'll have keeper birds from previous generations. with test matings you'll be able to determine who is carrying lav and who is not. I'm confident you will eliminate that gene from flock in at most 5 generations.

BTW, that K (cockerel) you were holding in photo is Blue. I saw a splash in a photo too. Are any of those birds in photo suppose to be Lavender? I don't see any.

 

[KhalSancho]

It will be a little difficult as the two colors (blue and Lav.) can be challenging to tell apart to many people. But it's really not that hard excepting very light blue Blue birds will look like Lavender. That said those birds are poor examples of Blue color so would be culled out with lavender birds anyway.

The standard for Blue is slate blue or another way to visualize it is Pigeon Blue. Lavender is dull grey, no two ways about it. Poor Blue color can look like that hence the difficulty in distinction. What I was saying is Blue has lacing or edging if you will on feather tips. Lavender does not. The standard for all Blue is for lacing and this variety for all breeds needs improvement in lacing. Going forward always use Blue with as much lacing as you can get and that guarantees you are mating Blue.

As for the genetics of what's going on you are starting with Lav and BLue. Lav gene requires both loci to be Lav to express. Blue varieties hatch out Black (no Blue gene), Blue (one blue gene) and Splash (two blue genes). Your F1 generation, first hatch from this pairing, will hatch out 50% black birds and 50% birds expressing blue. All of them will carry one gene of Lavender meaning they are split for Lav.

Mating the best laced blue birds of F1, don't use the parent cock as you feel his body type is lacking, will beget F2 generation. As each F1 bird carries one copy of Lav this will result in 25% offspring carrying no Lav, 25% will express Lav as they have two copies and 50% will still be split for lavender- carry one copy of gene. As you can see it's going to take generations to weed out the Lav completely. But by F4 generation you'll have keeper birds from previous generations. with test matings you'll be able to determine who is carrying lav and who is not. I'm confident you will eliminate that gene from flock in at most 5 generations.

BTW, that K (cockerel) you were holding in photo is Blue. I saw a splash in a photo too. Are any of those birds in photo suppose to be Lavender? I don't see any.

So the pictures I posted previous were all the same cockerel.. that’s why idk if it’s blue or splash. The view where I’m holding it kinda hides his sides but in the full body shots, like you said.. looks splash, right!? Here’s my flock..

top two images are my for sure blue. But she has too much crest feathers for me (will it be bred out)

next two are a couple lavenders

one black

Cockerel (blue or splash?)

group pic (possibly the one where you thought you saw a splash l, which is the cockerel)

and final pic is the cockerel again with his full body showing to make it easier to tell if he’s splash or blue

 

[KhalSancho]

It will be a little difficult as the two colors (blue and Lav.) can be challenging to tell apart to many people. But it's really not that hard excepting very light blue Blue birds will look like Lavender. That said those birds are poor examples of Blue color so would be culled out with lavender birds anyway.

The standard for Blue is slate blue or another way to visualize it is Pigeon Blue. Lavender is dull grey, no two ways about it. Poor Blue color can look like that hence the difficulty in distinction. What I was saying is Blue has lacing or edging if you will on feather tips. Lavender does not. The standard for all Blue is for lacing and this variety for all breeds needs improvement in lacing. Going forward always use Blue with as much lacing as you can get and that guarantees you are mating Blue.

As for the genetics of what's going on you are starting with Lav and BLue. Lav gene requires both loci to be Lav to express. Blue varieties hatch out Black (no Blue gene), Blue (one blue gene) and Splash (two blue genes). Your F1 generation, first hatch from this pairing, will hatch out 50% black birds and 50% birds expressing blue. All of them will carry one gene of Lavender meaning they are split for Lav.

Mating the best laced blue birds of F1, don't use the parent cock as you feel his body type is lacking, will beget F2 generation. As each F1 bird carries one copy of Lav this will result in 25% offspring carrying no Lav, 25% will express Lav as they have two copies and 50% will still be split for lavender- carry one copy of gene. As you can see it's going to take generations to weed out the Lav completely. But by F4 generation you'll have keeper birds from previous generations. with test matings you'll be able to determine who is carrying lav and who is not. I'm confident you will eliminate that gene from flock in at most 5 generations.

BTW, that K (cockerel) you were holding in photo is Blue. I saw a splash in a photo too. Are any of those birds in photo suppose to be Lavender? I don't see any.

But if you were talking about the group pic you thought i saw a splash of the lil hen in the back left on the ramp.. that’s my free gal, Gitchie.. she looks splash cuz she was picked on so much she was nearly bald and now with feathers coming back in that picture the shadows look like black splashes, but she’s totally lav (last pic here is that group one of this is the one you thought was splash?)

 

[Egghead_Jr]

Post #14;

Photo 1- Blue,
Photo 2 & 3- Lavender
Photo 4- Black
Photo 5 & 7- Blue

Photo 6 is shadowed but you can see Lav now I think.

In post #5 the third photo down bird to right is Splash. You will have blue leakage in splash birds, kind of mottled look of not quite white bird with patches of blue.

 

[KhalSancho]

Post #14;

Photo 1- Blue,
Photo 2 & 3- Lavender
Photo 4- Black
Photo 5 & 7- Blue

Photo 6 is shadowed but you can see Lav now I think.

In post #5 the third photo down bird to right is Splash. You will have blue leakage in splash birds, kind of mottled look of not quite white bird with patches of blue.

That’s what I’m saying. Post 5. It’s the same bird.. in all the pictures, that’s my confusing cockerel! Lol third pic down is still him and when the light hits him right.. I’m like.. are you BLUE OR SPLASH

 

[Egghead_Jr]

My bad. I meant to say the bird to left in photo not the bird to the right or center. Those two are blue.

ANywho, if you search about here or online you'll get some tips on breeding the blue variety. I'll give you a quick nitty gritty on it now-

You should always use at least one bird in a pairing that is expressing Blue (one copy). Using all blue expressing birds for mating is prefered but not always a possibility. If you have a black or splash with excellent type or other attribute you want/need by all means use it. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Improving body type is paramount when working toward the standard of perfection.

I'd stated earlier the importance of improving lacing. The two reasons you want to use at least one blue color bird in pairing is you can see the lacing on blue, you can't see it on black birds and unless lacing gene is strong in your flock you wont see it in splash birds either. Without using at least one blue in mating you could loose the lacing gene in flock all together. By using both blue with best lacing you are improving it.

To maintain or improve on the shade of blue you should use at least one blue bird in pairing and again better to use both. The shading will vary greatly in all offspring until you have worked on it well in flock. Use birds that are closed to desired shade or complement each other to obtain desired shade of blue. A dark blue to light blue with produce a range from that dark color to light with most being about middle of range. The closer those two shades of blue are the more offspring will be correct color making for more choices for other attributes in next mating. Blue is a hard variety to get right and not the easiest variety to maintain.

After generations of blue to blue the color will continue to lighten. A black bird of excellent type is used to darken up the blue again. So again, if you've a great type black use it. Breed it to a lighter great type blue. There is a finesse to it you'll gain with experience hands on. Seeing for yourself what results from certain pairings.

The biggest problem with blue variety is "breeders" want more blue expression so they mate splash to black to have all blue offspring. This is a mistake. They will all be blue expression (no gene mated to 2 genes results all carrying one gene which expresses blue). The problem with this is one- you don't know the quality of lacing in either parent and two- the offspring will be the entire range of blue shade, from light grey to dark blue. So you didn't really aid your cause in a mating like that. But again, if they are spectacular in every other regard then by all means use them. Just try to mate them to a complementing blue bird. Mate black to lighter blue and mate splash to darker blue.

Ok, that was a bit more than a "nut shell" of advise on how to breed blue variety. Hope it helps.

Good Luck!

 

[KhalSancho]

My bad. I meant to say the bird to left in photo not the bird to the right or center. Those two are blue.

ANywho, if you search about here or online you'll get some tips on breeding the blue variety. I'll give you a quick nitty gritty on it now-

You should always use at least one bird in a pairing that is expressing Blue (one copy). Using all blue expressing birds for mating is prefered but not always a possibility. If you have a black or splash with excellent type or other attribute you want/need by all means use it. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Improving body type is paramount when working toward the standard of perfection.

I'd stated earlier the importance of improving lacing. The two reasons you want to use at least one blue color bird in pairing is you can see the lacing on blue, you can't see it on black birds and unless lacing gene is strong in your flock you wont see it in splash birds either. Without using at least one blue in mating you could loose the lacing gene in flock all together. By using both blue with best lacing you are improving it.

To maintain or improve on the shade of blue you should use at least one blue bird in pairing and again better to use both. The shading will vary greatly in all offspring until you have worked on it well in flock. Use birds that are closed to desired shade or complement each other to obtain desired shade of blue. A dark blue to light blue with produce a range from that dark color to light with most being about middle of range. The closer those two shades of blue are the more offspring will be correct color making for more choices for other attributes in next mating. Blue is a hard variety to get right and not the easiest variety to maintain.

After generations of blue to blue the color will continue to lighten. A black bird of excellent type is used to darken up the blue again. So again, if you've a great type black use it. Breed it to a lighter great type blue. There is a finesse to it you'll gain with experience hands on. Seeing for yourself what results from certain pairings.

The biggest problem with blue variety is "breeders" want more blue expression so they mate splash to black to have all blue offspring. This is a mistake. They will all be blue expression (no gene mated to 2 genes results all carrying one gene which expresses blue). The problem with this is one- you don't know the quality of lacing in either parent and two- the offspring will be the entire range of blue shade, from light grey to dark blue. So you didn't really aid your cause in a mating like that. But again, if they are spectacular in every other regard then by all means use them. Just try to mate them to a complementing blue bird. Mate black to lighter blue and mate splash to darker blue.

Ok, that was a bit more than a "nut shell" of advise on how to breed blue variety. Hope it helps.

Good Luck!

That was literally the more info and help I’ve gotten than ANY amount of SCROUNGING the depths of the interwebs lol. I appreciate your help SO much and I think you’ve gotten me more than a step in the right direction.. and I’m so happy for that because without you I probably would’ve messed up my blue saturation colour I’m going for and the lacing. So thank you again and again for that! I’ll be sure to keep you in the loop when the f1s drop!