Are we becoming a police state?

[Dunkopf]

I have WHAT in my yard? :

Just finished reading James Yee's book For God and Country.

Excellent excellent book. Yee is a West Point grad. His story perfectly embodies both everything that is absolutely wrong with this country


AND

Everything that is right.

This government totally shafted a dedicated soldier. BUT< the system of checks and balances - which includes the press and the voice of the people - eventually worked and restored at least part of his life back to order.

That is how our system works. It is WHY it works.
It will ALWAYS go too far. First in one direction then the other

Then people get mad and the push pull gets heated and the swing shifts back and thirty years later it is too far in the other direction.

We lost Waaaaaaay too many of our rights in our endeavor for security. Luckily lots of people were angry and scared about that and while they remained quiet voices, they are pulling our rights back out of the jaws of the police state. It is, by far, not over, or is it a given.

Just be careful, rights that you want for yourself tend to be wanted by other groups you don't think should have them....

Isn't James Yee that officer that was an excellent soldier and officer and got booted over don't ask don't tell. How long before he gets his job back?​

 

[chickened]

The fore fathers would be considered homegrown terrorist in America today.
Quote:
The Constitution is actually relatively simple and easy to understand. It is a MYTH that it is a "complex" document that only experts can understand. I have a copy, I've read through it several times. It's very easy, if you hit something you don't understand, to simply ask the authors. The Federalist Papers are readily available at most libraries, and there are also sites like http://constitution.org/c5/index.php that contain massive amounts of the Founders' writings.

Timothy McVeigh, if I'm not mistaken, was not associated with any militia group.

What constitutes a homegrown terrorist, anyway? It seems to me that the "Constitutional Extremists" are the ones who have a better point. Right now, the government is more oppressive than King George III and Parliament at the time of our War for Independence. The only difference is that it's far more tactful and less conspicious.

 

[WyandotteTX]

Quote:
The Constitution is actually relatively simple and easy to understand. It is a MYTH that it is a "complex" document that only experts can understand. I have a copy, I've read through it several times. It's very easy, if you hit something you don't understand, to simply ask the authors. The Federalist Papers are readily available at most libraries, and there are also sites like http://constitution.org/c5/index.php that contain massive amounts of the Founders' writings.

Timothy McVeigh, if I'm not mistaken, was not associated with any militia group.

What constitutes a homegrown terrorist, anyway? It seems to me that the "Constitutional Extremists" are the ones who have a better point. Right now, the government is more oppressive than King George III and Parliament at the time of our War for Independence. The only difference is that it's far more tactful and less conspicious.


I agree they would have but they were not under democratic rule at that time either..... which for whatever you say about our government we are still a democracy.

 

[chickened]

C.S. Lewis wrote a book many years prior to Germany's antics, he never named specifics but pretty much predicted in his writings what acually happenned. I will try to find the name of the book.
Quote:

 

[chickened]

Regarding the latest TSA episode, the terrorist have won not on the battlefield but at the core of American freedoms and ideals. Our government is more interested in social legislation and re-election than really doing what is needed to keep us free and safe. Us stupid Americans are standing watching and applauding them.

 

[Whitehouse Quail]

Scare tactics.

Take for instance the 'Cell phone extraction' device of Michigan. If they pull you over, they are not going to pull all your cell phone info. They have to have a judge ordered warrant in the state of Michigan. Did it mention that in the article? No. Did they say that this won't happen if you are pulled over for speeding? No.

Check the facts before you post on them, please.

And no, Yahoo News is not a factual website. Look at the byline: Right above is the Associated Content symbol. A thirteen year old could have written that article. In fact, I recently created an article there to see if they'd catch errors of fact. Nope.

 

[WyandotteTX]

Quote:
The Constitution is actually relatively simple and easy to understand. It is a MYTH that it is a "complex" document that only experts can understand. I have a copy, I've read through it several times. It's very easy, if you hit something you don't understand, to simply ask the authors. The Federalist Papers are readily available at most libraries, and there are also sites like http://constitution.org/c5/index.php that contain massive amounts of the Founders' writings.

Timothy McVeigh, if I'm not mistaken, was not associated with any militia group.

What constitutes a homegrown terrorist, anyway? It seems to me that the "Constitutional Extremists" are the ones who have a better point. Right now, the government is more oppressive than King George III and Parliament at the time of our War for Independence. The only difference is that it's far more tactful and less conspicious.

You think the Constitution is easy to understand and only means one thing. You need to understand that you see it from one perspective, when in reality there are multiple perspectives on many of the items contained in it. The 2nd amendment comes to mind. People that think the Constitution is plain and simple have a teenage mind set. Teenagers tend to see everything as black and white. Life makes you understand that reality is actually different shades of grey.

AMEN Dunk!!
I too was once young and saw everything in black and white and how the north was the illegal oppressor etc,etc. It was my education and experiences in life that have led me to relax those views. You can call me a conformist or whatever you like. I grew up in an atmosphere of small minds and hatred and bigotry. I have seen the burning crosses and the men in white hoods and I felt sorry for them. That they couldnt find anything of worth to believe in their life and thusly accepted hatred and bigotry until it consumed them. There is more to life than hate and blaming someone else for the ills of society or your own poor lot in life.

Its like I suggested to the young man that he take some courses at the university level with true academians and not learn it from someone on a website somewhere. Constitutional Law were the absolute hardest courses I have ever taken! The level of understanding you have to know of our Constitution and all of the cases that have shaped that document is immense. If it was so easy to understand I am pretty sure they wouldnt have such in depth courses to try and help understand it. Just my take on it.

Lastly I will never subscribe to the idea that our government now is more oppressive than King George III. Are we forced to house soldiers in our own homes? no. Is it illegal to own firearms? no. Are we taxed without representation? no.....the list goes on..

 

[Happy Chooks]

Quote:
You're way off base on that one. Try to be real. Break each of your sentences down in that definition. Absolutely none of them apply. Someone else mentioned the military being used against the public. I'm pretty up on social and political events in the US. I haven't heard of our military being used in this country for anything except fighting fires and building dikes. The heaviest they have been used was in Katrina.

Our POTUS doesn't have any absolute power over anything except the military. Even then the Congress can cut off his money and eventually he has to withdraw from wherever he has our troops. It blows me away to hear stuff like that. It really shows how powerful the media is. Goebels would be proud.

repressive controls over the social life - public school system, condition kids to do what the "authority" tells them and be good little sheep.
economic control - devaluing our currency
political life - we're darn near bankrupt with all our entitlement programs, thanks to them. But it's okay, because they'll just take more of my money.
restrictions on their mobility and on their freedom - TSA is a huge restriction and takes away our freedom for a scan that has been proven to not even work - refer to sheep education
subject to police monitoring enforcement - Patriot Act and BATF
Political control may be exerted by means of a secret police force which operates outside the boundaries normally imposed by a constitutional state. - CIA, special forces, etc. Heck, our President attacked Iran without Congressional approval.


The way I see it, they ALL apply.

 

[Whitehouse Quail]

Quote:
You're way off base on that one. Try to be real. Break each of your sentences down in that definition. Absolutely none of them apply. Someone else mentioned the military being used against the public. I'm pretty up on social and political events in the US. I haven't heard of our military being used in this country for anything except fighting fires and building dikes. The heaviest they have been used was in Katrina.

Our POTUS doesn't have any absolute power over anything except the military. Even then the Congress can cut off his money and eventually he has to withdraw from wherever he has our troops. It blows me away to hear stuff like that. It really shows how powerful the media is. Goebels would be proud.

repressive controls over the social life - public school system, condition kids to do what the "authority" tells them and be good little sheep. Okay, would it make you feel better if the public schools weren't there? Plus the whole antidisestablishmentarianism thing.... it really lights my fire.
economic control - devaluing our currency Yeah, I blame Obama.
political life - we're darn near bankrupt with all our entitlement programs, thanks to them. But it's okay, because they'll just take more of my money.I feel you here.
restrictions on their mobility and on their freedom - TSA is a huge restriction and takes away our freedom for a scan that has been proven to not even work - refer to sheep education I don't care if they strip search me and everyone else on the plane... as long as I don't blow up in the sky.
subject to police monitoring enforcement - Patriot Act and BATF We are still alive and well, keeping terrorists at bay aren't we? Or we can repeal them both and hope to God that the CIA breaks the law and taps their phone. Otherwise we're screwed!
Political control may be exerted by means of a secret police force which operates outside the boundaries normally imposed by a constitutional state. - CIA, special forces, etc. Heck, our President attacked Iran without Congressional approval. Would you prefer he waited for them to have a mass vote, let Osama know they knew where he was, and let a terrorist out on the world, newly ticked off because the POTUS tried to kill him.


The way I see it, they ALL apply. In a pre-9/11 I would agree with you. But not now.

Just my 0.02.

 

[Happy Chooks]

We're going to have to agree to disagree here.



It's not Obama's fault for the money situation. It's Roosevelt's fault for The Gold Reserve Act.

None of the restrictions placed on airlines have actually prevented anything. We had to start taking off our shoes AFTER the shoe bomber. The body scanners were rejected by Japan and Australia after they failed to detect explosive material. It's a false sense of safety - you are no more safe with them than you were before. So are you for racial profiling then, as long as you don't blow up in the sky? I'd rather have my freedom and take my chances.

Nothing we do will keep the "terrorists" at bay. Our government is hugely ineffective. If they were effective 9-11 would have never happened. They certainly won't do the same attack twice. They'll think of a new way if they really want to attack us again.