Arizona Tragedy - WWYD?

[redhen]

See..i have the exact opposite experiences..
When we have teens that are a danger to themselves OR others.. they come and get them ASAP... (like THAT night..they'll either send out the mental health crisis care people to your house.. or you bring them to the E.R. and wait for the mental health crisis people to come there and pick them up)
They either go into a hospital or a intensive residential care facility.
Its all about liability...
So from MY personal experience..they DO indeed get these KIDS help.

As for adults.... well thats harder. If they refuse... someone has to deem them unsafe to get them sectioned. Then they can pull them in and get them help. BUT, usually as soon as they leave the hospital..they stop taking their meds and the problem continues. Its a vicious cycle.

 

[nonseq]

I think MA has a better health care delivery system, perhaps? Also, do you do foster care?

Here in Ohio, families have been known to give up custody of their children to the state in order to get those kids the mental health care the kids required.

 

[PineappleMama]

Throw in the differences...

Laws between states, counties and cities. Laws in Texas aren't going to be identical to ones in Jersey.

Judges personal takes on those laws.

Doctors personal takes on psychology, mental illness, medications.

And of course each and every single case is different because every human is different.

This is just not something that a single, one size fits all, law can work for... even if we could get every state, county and city on board with the exact same rules those rules would never work for every person. Some would slip through the cracks because they aren't 'sick' enough. Some would get locked up when they didn't need to be.

I just don't see how to solve this. Even if they somehow managed to get past the rights stuff and gave the doctor full control, well some docs don't like meds period, some only like this particular one, some hate this other one but it might be great for this one patient...

How can someone who's unstable possibly get stable by using a system that is unstable, under researched, under funded, under staffed... ?

Throwing money at the problem isn't going to solve it, because one, there's not enough money being thrown to even cover the needed treatments, two the money is just being thrown into a broken system rather than into research to fix the system and build on the knowledge base, three it won't change the fact that there are only so many doctors, nurses etc willing to work with these people and you cannot order someone to take that job... outside a communist state anyways and I don't think we should be able to order such a thing.... best you can do is offer bookoo bucks, taking those funds from treatment and research and it's still not going to make a plastic surgeon take up psyche if that's not what they want to be doing... it would help, if med students knew it was a profitable and secure field... but that's just not the case. There's not enough money to entice those who aren't very interested in the field into taking that path and there's no guarantee that insurance or the government will pay their saleries... it's just an unstable system. No one wants to invest thousands and thousands of dollars in an education just to find they can't make enough money to live on, n'mind paying back those loans. And the money is just not there to offer incentives (like loan repayment after five years in the field) to get folks into the field even for a short time. They do have programs like that for teachers I think, in some places... heard about them doing that IF you take a job in a 'bad' district... and serve X years... that sort of thing. Maybe if we could find the funds to offer something like that to med students... serve five years and your bill is paid... then you can go on to private practice or whatever... then maybe that could help... but I donno where that money would come from... and many folks figure doctors are all rich, or will be five minutes after graduation, so why help them?

Meh... anyone else got any idears?

 

[redhen]

Quote:
Yes.. i do therapeutic foster care for teens..
So.. maybe thats why they REALLY dont mess around with these kids? Again.... its all about liability...
If a kid was showing signs of hurting themselves or someone else... and noone acted on it, and something happend..
Forget about it... your done and everyone above you is done.
Actually the state is being sued right now....
So yeah..i think MA isnt taking many chances at this point.

Although.. i do also know of kids not in foster care and the state still doesnt mess around with getting these kids in care...

Some of the kids i take in see a therapist with-in my foster care company.. So thats easy for us.
Others (different contracts), have to get therapy outside the company. Now THAT can be a pain... sometimes a couple months to get a kid in. BUT... if there was ever any urgent matter, harming themselves or harming others, They can get emergency care/therapy right away.

Again..these are kids..adults is a different story.

 

[darkmatter]

Bi-polar---manic / depressive. When you're depressed, you don't want help. When you're manic, you don't need it.

 

[redhen]

Quote:
Here the age is 18..
A legal guardian can put you into treatment until you are 18 yrs old.(if a doctor says you need it..)
And..if your doc says you are still unsafe... they can section you and keep you over the age of 18.

As for forcing meds down the throat..Nope... you cant do that, for sure.
But i do know that in some treatment facilities... they have restrained kids and given them injections. Again... doctor has to order it. And hes walking a fine line then...
But..they have other ways of getting them to take meds.... if they dont comply with the doctors orders/meds.. they can keep them in treatment/hospital until they comply or they feel they are safe enough to be released.

Again.. talking about minors..not adults.

 

[welsummerchicks]

I am not sure that 18 is the age in Mass. I actually think it is different from the age required for other rights.

 

[redhen]

Quote:
It is 18..
16 for sexual consent... but you are still a minor and your legal guardian is responsible for you. (so if you are letting your 16 yr old daughter have sex with a 30 yr old sex offender man..you CAN be charged with neglect...) and they can also make certain health care decisions for you...
Unless you get legally emancipated. Which rarely happens.
I know this because they have taken in MANY kids from my house and put them in treatment. And they ALL went un-willingly. But the guardian gave permission...

Again.. i do foster care though.. So maybe its different?
BUT..many of these kids parents are STILL their legal guardians... or sometimes they share guardianship with the state also. I do know that when have to take them in..they HAVE to contact the legal guardians... whomever that may be at the time.

 

[redhen]

Heres an example..
Had a kid(16) that was adopted, so they were his legal guardians..( Him and his adopted parents were having major problems) He didnt want to be in the treatment program.. the parents wanted him in it. And the therapist also said that he needed to be in it, considered him a "high-risk"..
So.. this kid HAD to stay in the foster care program. He was asking his lawyer to get him emancipated because he didnt want his parents to be able to make treatment decisions for him anymore..
But nope.. he was under 18. No can do.. You're staying till your 18 buddy. Cause your a liability for us.. and a risk to society.
He ended up running away from the program...

 

[welsummerchicks]

Thanks.

This has been a fascinating discussion. I hope more people will kick in with their experiences.