attack was the stray rotweiller!

[matt44644]

In most states you do have the right to defend your livestock,unless the predator is a protected species.I don't think that people are just killing them for sport.
Last year after i got chickens i started seeing feral cats in my yard.As a cat owner of more than 30 years i could never hurt a cat but I wasn't about to let my chickens become free dinner.
But if it came to that i would have the right to defend my livestock.Most of them cats didn't survive crossing the road when met upon by the combines.So luckily i personally didn't have to deal with it.They nearest dwelling to my house are all 3000-5500 feet away,so where did they come from?

 

[WYNot]

Everyone's situation is different. Laws vary by location.

I grew up on a farm raising beef cattle. We only ever had 30 to 40 at any given time but when you consider they can have a value of $1000+ (and that is not including future offspring) the cost of losses can add up very quickly if a stray dog starts chasing, harassing, or killing them. Those cattle were not a hobby or a pet. They were a livelihood and a source of food. I have been fortunate to have several dogs in my life at various times (the latest was a beautiful white husky with the brightest blue eyes) but livestock ranks higher than pet in the grand scheme of life. Edit to add... With cattle if the dog injures them it isn't like chickens where you can just say off to freezer camp with them. Freezer camp for a cow is a much more involved time consuming process that requires planning and resources. Vet bills are also much larger with cattle than with chickens.

Growing up there was a pack of stray/feral dogs running around on my grandfather's farm. At the time we only used the property for hay, grain, and hunting. So, didn't have the problems we might have if we had been using it to run cattle. However for a number of years the deer population was near zero as they pack would run them down and eat them as well as their fawns every spring. Also, you didn't dare go back to the farm to work without a firearm. Those dogs were vicious and they had NO fear of people. After a couple years, they were finally eliminated but it was not easy.

Here in OH firearms laws are much less restrictive than in Canada. Also the state laws are in place to protect livestock. Full law is below but basically any dog chasing, harassing, or killing livestock is a target and the pet owner is automatically liable for any damages. They also have no recourse as they should have controlled their pet.

Personally, I love all my animals and they are all on the spoiled side. However, I still put the livestock over the pet if there is some either/or decision. And I do what is needed to ensure that pets do not roam off my property. As someone else says, "Your dog in your yard is a pet. Your dog in my yard is a predator." I will do what is needed to protect my livestock from predators. If trapping makes more sense, I'll do that. If reinforcing fences, walls, structures makes more sense, I'll do that. If shooting makes more sense, I'll do that. It all depends on the situation. If I recognize the dog and it is not causing any harm and I can catch it, yeah I'll take it back to the owner and let them know in no uncertain terms that it won't happen again. If I don't recognize the dog and it is chasing the livestock and IF I can catch it then that is what I'll probably do. If it is chasing the livestock and has caused any harm at all, then yeah the dog will be killed.

As for racoons, opossums, cats, etc. Yeah, those are going to get dispatched on sight. I'm a farmer and a hunter and I value wildlife. And not just for its nutritional value. However, my philosophy is you stay in your world and all is good. Critters stay in the wild and I'll just sit back and watch, enjoying the beauty. They come into my living space; yard, barn, house, etc. and they will be dispatched.

So, as you can hopefully see killing a dog is not the go to solution. Personally, I'd much rather deal with the situation in another manner. Unfortunately that is not always possible and we usually don't have any other choice. "Shoot it' just winds up being the short quick answer and the one that is forced upon us by irresponsible pet owners. Frankly it can get tiring being told that one is sooo cruel and heartless for suggesting killing a dog that was chasing/killing livestock. The one who is cruel is the pet owner who put their "beloved" pet in the situation. If a person can not accept the full responsibility of owning a dog then they need to stick with goldfish.

955.28 Dog may be killed for certain acts - owner liable for damages.

(A) Subject to divisions (A)(2) and (3) of section 955.261 of the Revised Code, a dog that is chasing or approaching in a menacing fashion or apparent attitude of attack, that attempts to bite or otherwise endanger, or that kills or injures a person or a dog that chases, threatens, harasses, injures, or kills livestock, poultry, other domestic animal, or other animal, that is the property of another person, except a cat or another dog, can be killed at the time of that chasing, threatening, harassment, approaching, attempt, killing, or injury. If, in attempting to kill such a dog, a person wounds it, the person is not liable to prosecution under the penal laws that punish cruelty to animals. Nothing in this section precludes a law enforcement officer from killing a dog that attacks a police dog as defined in section 2921.321 of the Revised Code.

(B) The owner, keeper, or harborer of a dog is liable in damages for any injury, death, or loss to person or property that is caused by the dog, unless the injury, death, or loss was caused to the person or property of an individual who, at the time, was committing or attempting to commit criminal trespass or another criminal offense other than a minor misdemeanor on the property of the owner, keeper, or harborer, or was committing or attempting to commit a criminal offense other than a minor misdemeanor against any person, or was teasing, tormenting, or abusing the dog on the owner's, keeper's, or harborer's property. Additionally, the owner, keeper, or harborer of a dog is liable in damages for any injury, death, or loss to person or property that is caused by the dog if the injury, death, or loss was caused to the person or property of an individual who, at the time of the injury, death, or loss, was on the property of the owner, keeper, or harborer solely for the purpose of engaging in door-to-door sales or other solicitations regardless of whether the individual was in compliance with any requirement to obtain a permit or license to engage in door-to-door sales or other solicitations established by the political subdivision in which the property of the owner, keeper, or harborer is located, provided that the person was not committing a criminal offense other than a minor misdemeanor or was not teasing, tormenting, or abusing the dog.

 

[RichnSteph]

But, isn't that illegal were you guys live? How do your neighbours not hear the gun shot? You all live so far in the country?

Most states here have a clause or law stating that the livestock owner can legally dispatch (kill) any predator that is threatening his/her livestock. That includes most raptors, wild dogs, domestic animals if they are truly a threat, etc. If your issue with the cats was happening here they you'd be (depending on the state you lived in) legally able to shoot each and every cat that came on your property and threatened your chickens. I too had a "cat issue" post locked due to the language some folks used when I was just trying to get help removing 30++ cats that were attacking my grandmothers chickens, pooping in the garden, pooping in the flowerbeds, peeing on everything, etc.... Some folks can't distinguish between the cute little tabby that bonks you with his nose in the mornings and the pack of feral cats that are diseased and underfed and killing your chickens. Same with dogs.

RichnSteph

 

[speckledhen]

I don't understand how there are so many post about killing animals.

I had problems with stray cats.. yeah.. 50 of them left abandoned in a van on my neighbours property. I opened a post about it that was closed - I guess my language and emotions were too much... but the solution to the chicken-killing, bird feeder predator, pooping in my garden cats was to basically.. kill them..

But, isn't that illegal were you guys live? How do your neighbours not hear the gun shot? You all live so far in the country?

If I'd shoot the neighbours rottweiler, THREE TIMES, I suppose I'd be in jail by now.. even if it was on MY property. I just don't understand how you manage all this killing.

On another note.. I don't blame the breeds either I have a husky, which everyone told me would eat my chickens.. and she never did, and they free range on my lawn.

There is a little beagle that comes to visit me. Often, on Saturday mornings I am sitting with my coffee an I hear scratching on my door. It is the Beagle that comes to say hi He doesn't attack the chickens. I let him in, he plays with my dogs and then goes back home! I am nice and gentle with any animal that doesn't attack me, my family or my animals! I do like Bobbi and haul them home - not the Beagle, he knows the road. Pretty cute, he's been visiting for a year now. My old dog died last winter, I had a husky after her. The Beagle met with the Husky and they are friends too. I wonder if the Beagle really "thinks" of my dogs before he leaves his home to come to mine.

My friend who shot three rottweilers lives in Kentucky. The law backed her up and will always back her up in that situation. These dogs were killing her chickens, one in the presence of a sheriff's deputy, who shot it on the spot after yelling, "Is that your dog???" (as it ran past them with hurt chicken in mouth). One of the rotties went into her barn and was growling at her husband who was working in his blacksmith shop there. Another one gone. When a dog goes onto your property and threatens you, you darn well have a right to shoot it in almost every place in this country. YES, she lives out in the country, and YES, she has neighbors who hear the shot and call her when they hear the shot (always asking if she is okay and/or needs their assistance to bury a body).

"All this killing" makes it sound like we're all out with guns looking for something to slaughter.

"All this killing" in regard to the situation I was writing about and which you referenced is killing predators in the act of either threatening the people in her family or actually killing or attempting to kill her livestock. The law is on her side in that regard. So, no, she is not in danger of arrest. I realize some laws are backwards in some areas, but most are similar. The law here in Georgia says I am allowed to kill any roaming dog threatening/harassing/killing my livestock. It also says that any dog off the owner's property MUST be under the control of said owner, which obviously means on a leash or very well trained to follow vocal/hand commands. In this county, the owner is nowhere to be found when roaming dogs are here, so of course, are not under the owner's control. We love dogs, but we WILL shoot if threatened by a growling dog or the chickens are in danger. No dog comes to my land and tries a stand off with us. If the owner cared for the dog, it wouldn't be here.

NEVER approach a big, growling dog with head lowered and tail down, people. Anyone who says do that is one sandwich short of a picnic. Not smart at all.

 

[WYNot]

Also, at least here in Ohio, it isn't a matter of being way out in the country. If you are outside of city limits then discharge of a firearm is generally not in and of itself illegal. You can be the first house outside the city limits and you are good to go to target practice or dispatch predators. All with the caveat that you are doing so safely.

 

[speckledhen]

Also, at least here in Ohio, it isn't a matter of being way out in the country. If you are outside of city limits then discharge of a firearm is generally not in and of itself illegal. You can be the first house outside the city limits and you are good to go to target practice or dispatch predators. All with the caveat that you are doing so safely.

It does depend on where you are, certainly, and if you have a firearm and know how to use it. No one should use one who isn't proficient. But when there is no animal control (which only gets there after the slaughter, usually, if at all), the owner of the livestock has to find a way to deal with dogs.

I see so many people come into conversations like this and get all up in arms (pardon the pun) about shooting dogs, like they should just be able to call some friendly dog warden to get there within 5 minutes or go grab a collar and escort the dog off their property. The "all that killing" remark was like that to me and that is what I was answering.

 

[WYNot]

Yep. In the same boat. Grew up out in the country and grew up taking responsibility for ourselves and our own. As with cops, so with animal control... When seconds count they are only minutes (usually many) away.

Dispatching a dog is not something I ever want to do or even remotely enjoy. It is something that is forced upon me by irresponsible dog owners. I have animals I'm responsible for their safety, care, and well being.

Sorry, speckledhen, That previous comment was more for the OP and the comment that we must be living so far out in the country.

 

[enola]

When i was in ND last month, Mike baby sat the farm. Dogs got in my chickens AGAIN. The dog warden told me to tell him if the dogs came back to the barn SHOOT the dog(s). If he could identify the dog, the dog warden would come pick the dog up. If he couldn't identify the dog just bury it. In other words, any dogs (whether they were actually harassing my livestock or not) on my property could be shot. He has been to all of my neighbors and informed them that by law their dogs MUST stay home. I have shot and disposed of two dogs and still had more chickens killed last week. I now have a game cam in use......

 

[Sabz]

Hey you guys might just have given me the tools I need to feel better..

I wrote to the police to ask if it was legal to kill the feral cats that are attacking my flock. They DID NOT answer. They replied exactly (but translated): "There is nothing preventing you from putting some traps for racoons". Meaning, I guess, that if I was aiming at wild animals it would be OK if I accidently caught and killed a cat.

But, I will read the law (sometimes pretty hard to find the right place / chapter..). Maybe there is something about protecting livestock, but not accepted by the general public maybe. I will do some research!

"All this killing" makes it sound like we're all out with guns looking for something to slaughter.

"All this killing" in regard to the situation I was writing about and which you referenced is killing predators in the act of either threatening the people in her family or actually killing or attempting to kill her livestock. The law is on her side in that regard. So, no, she is not in danger of arrest. I realize some laws are backwards in some areas, but most are similar. The law here in Georgia says I am allowed to kill any roaming dog threatening/harassing/killing my livestock. It also says that any dog off the owner's property MUST be under the control of said owner, which obviously means on a leash or very well trained to follow vocal/hand commands. In this county, the owner is nowhere to be found when roaming dogs are here, so of course, are not under the owner's control. We love dogs, but we WILL shoot if threatened by a growling dog or the chickens are in danger. No dog comes to my land and tries a stand off with us. If the owner cared for the dog, it wouldn't be here.

Hehe so sorry, I didn't mean it THAT way. It is just that if you search "kill" or "shot" on the forum, many people do seem to use this method. For a woman that never heard about anyone killing animals before, yes, it does seem like a lot of killing. It is just something we don't do as much in Canada I guess, as someone said above, probably because of all the restrictions on firearms.

Regardless of the reason WHY, it is still killing. Even to protect your flock You can't detach yourself from the gesture just by replacing word "kill" by "protect".

Here I think the law is more like: Dog is supposed to stay on your property. If not, send many many letters, bring the owner in justice if he fails to complain to written complaints, lose time off work, then gain a ridiculous amount like 100$..

I will read our laws. Even if it takes a month. I refuse to let go! Thanks people And sorry, I didn't want to sound like everyone that kills a predator is a mean person. Not at all. I am just not used to hearing / reading things like that. I am totally, 1000% FOR trapping or killing if any animal is causing harm to our property, family or animals, just as long as it is as painless and fast as possible.

 

[gawildlife]

Sabz, do not expect a straight answer ever when discussing cats. For some reason cats are the third rail of animal management. We jokingly refer to "crazy cat ladies" but it ain't far from the truth.

One of my more memorable jobs was trapping and removing feral cats from a property in downtown Atlanta. The cats were entering the private garden and building of a gay bar and defeating and spraying to create a pretty nasty situation. The problem arose when the tenants of an adjoining property who were feeding and sheltering the cats got wind of what I was doing. The cat lovers happened to be a rather well respected law firm.
Now one would think I got some rather legalistic cease and desist letters or maybe even an injunction. Not on your life, I instead got some of the most vile and vulgar personal attacks from several individuals. The things they said of my clients would've been more fitting of a klan rally. And this from members of a law firm known for taking on social causes yet cats totally deranged them.

Georgia like most states has laws on the books defining felony animal cruelty one of which is the willful abandonment of domestic animals. Yet one metro atlanta animal control does just that by releasing feral cats back into the wild. Even the federal government has gotten coerced into this as well via public pressure when USDA Wildlife Services relocates feral from Corps of Engineer lands to City of Atlanta parks. Not just Atlanta either, Athens/Clarke County (home of the University of Georgia) is an official "cat sanctuary".
Now if you ever happen to catch one of our state wildlife biologists in a candid moment they will to a man say "kill them all" but would never utter such on the record.

It's the most bizarre thing I've ever dealt with.