Barnevelder breeders lets work together and improve the breed

[Happy Chooks]

I agree with your thoughts on breeding barnevelders Andy. And WOW, that is one handsome rooster. His yellow legs really stand out too.

 

[bonnylass79]

Hi Cindy

Good luck with your hatch!! Its exciting. I will go through my receipts and see if I sold any eggs to any Florida people, I think I might have. If so maybe they can provide you with some nice birds or eggs. I am hatching today and have a few chicks out. No Barnies today I should be setting some of them next week.

Look forward to hearing about your chicks.

Andy

I'd also love to know if there are any Barnie folks in Florida or Georgia for that matter). I'm up in Brooksville. I've had my eye on Barnevelders for a few years now, but can never find any locally. I haven't tried shipped eggs yet. The idea frightens me a little. I don't like taking such a gamble on such expensive eggs.

 

[mountainvieworchards]

Hi Bonny and Cindy

I sold some eggs to a person in Panama City in 2010, I have sent her an email to see if she has any stock to sell. I will let you know

Andy

 

[plantcityhomestead]

Hi Bonny and Cindy

I sold some eggs to a person in Panama City in 2010, I have sent her an email to see if she has any stock to sell. I will let you know

Andy

Thanks Andy. Bonnylass I am just down the road from you in Plant City. If we can get some good Barnevelders, we will have to work together to introduce people in our area to these beautiful birds.

I had a much better hatch than I expected. All the eggs that made it to the incubator hatched. The chicks are very small compared to the size of the eggs. I think the layers had poor nutrition based on the size of the chicks and the yoke of the egg that I broke.
There are also some quality issues. I have 2 that are gold chipmunks, so I think they are not a pure line. At this point they are all doing well. I can't complain. The eggs only cost me $5 plus shipping and I might get a few passable birds out of it.

Please check out the photos and let me know what you experienced folks see.

 

[mountainvieworchards]

Well you got a good hatch there. Some of your chicks are wild type e+ (with head stripes) and some look like browns (eb with helmets) so you have at least some crosses there. I would color band all the chicks to show the chick down type so you know when they are mature.

Nice hatch

 

[pysankigirl]

Well you got a good hatch there. Some of your chicks are wild type e+ (with head stripes) and some look like browns (eb with helmets) so you have at least some crosses there. I would color band all the chicks to show the chick down type so you know when they are mature.

Nice hatch

LOL...yeah, looks like my current hatch x 3. I have a dorking and 2 barnevelder chicks.

 

[tls_ranch]

I am not sure how this will come out online but it looked great on my screen at home. Here is the front end of my Johan rooster, you can see some red flecks in his breast, hardly what I would call laced. He is a fine looking bird to my eye. I love the iridescence in the Barnevelders.

Some food for thought on male breast color:

Most of us agree we don't want to do double matings. So what if neither the laced or the solid black male gives the best laced hens, what if it is something like black with a few flecks, just supposing. I know some of you believe in perfection, but defining it is almost as elusive as achieving it. I think when you write a standard for something it should be both desirable and achievable.

Some breeds like the black copper marans have a standard that is something like breast is black and may have a few flecks of copper, that is my paraphrasing. I personally don't think the color of the roosters breast should be such a defining point in Barnevelders, I feel that the defining color is the double lacing of the hen and therefore the desireable color of the rooster would be that that comes from and produces the best double laced hens. Viola no double mating.

Any way here it is

Beautiful rooster Andy I like what you said about the breast lacing issue too. Changing the standard to refect the Dutch ideal of a black breast, but allowing for slight lacing may be a good compromise. I've also read some APA SOP descriptions that allow for similar slight differences color in other breeds. Dr Netland said it was a "mistake" for the SOP to have laced breasts for the males in the first place. He also said that most of the males shown at the original APA qualifing meet had black or near solid black breasts. The Dutch have now stated the black breast produces the best laced females and can be bred without the need for double mating.
This is just my opinion...but like Dr Netland said, it would be a good idea to address this issue with the APA.

Trisha

 

[plantcityhomestead]

Well you got a good hatch there. Some of your chicks are wild type e+ (with head stripes) and some look like browns (eb with helmets) so you have at least some crosses there. I would color band all the chicks to show the chick down type so you know when they are mature.

Nice hatch

Andy, I am totally ignorant when it comes to Barnevelders. Please explain your above comments. I take it that the e+ are bad and the eb are good? Will the e+ look like Barnies when they mature? If the e+ chicks aren't worth keeping, I will rehome them right away. They are so cute, I'm sure they will find other homes. Is there any reason why I should keep the e+? Since they obviously came from a bad flock, should I just get rid of them all and try again?

cindy

 

[plantcityhomestead]

Beautiful rooster Andy I like what you said about the breast lacing issue too. Changing the standard to refect the Dutch ideal of a black breast, but allowing for slight lacing may be a good compromise. I've also read some APA SOP descriptions that allow for similar slight differences color in other breeds. Dr Netland said it was a "mistake" for the SOP to have laced breasts for the males in the first place. He also said that most of the males shown at the original APA qualifing meet had black or near solid black breasts. The Dutch have now stated the black breast produces the best laced females and can be bred without the need for double mating.
This is just my opinion...but like Dr Netland said, it would be a good idea to address this issue with the APA.

Trisha

Andy and Trisha, your discussion has me wondering......do most of the serious breeders keep two flocks going to get the right colors for the males and females. I know some good Orpington and Faverolle breeders do this to get the preferred color. At least until you can get the SOP changed, will this be necessary, or are most of you just showing the females and breeding the males to get the black breasts? I prefer the black breast, and will probably breed toward that goal, regardless of the APA.

cindy

 

[mountainvieworchards]

Hi Cindy


The chicks with the V or arrow on the top of the head and with chipmunk stripes and eyelines are of the wild type and the genetic short hand for this is e+. Barnevelders are eb or brown and the chick down has a dark brown helmet and they also have the chipmunk stripes. Some of the chicks I see in your pictures are wild type and that indicates that the line of Barnevelders they are from has been crossed with another breed that introduced the wild type e+ .

Now what you do with them is up to you and what your goals are. They may be fine chickens and lay lots of eggs and you can keep them for layers or sell them to someone else for layers if you want. Like many of us on here, I have several crossbred birds that I keep around here for one reason or the other and each one has a story. It usually has to do with them being part of a long term project or because they are good layers or laying a good color egg. If your goal is to breed a flock of standard bred Barnevelders and do so with as few headaches and false starts as possible you would save yourself heartache if you looked for other birds from good lines where you have seen the parents and approve of them. Or if you like to play around and don't mind the challenge carefully select from the eb looking chicks you have here, they have the little brown helmets on the head and breed them to other Barnevelder chicks from known lines. This comes with more risk but could be fun if you like risk. The wild type gene is pretty easy to spot in the chicks, but some of the other genes that come with the cross may be harder to find out and may mess up your lacing and your color, egg character, temperament and other Barnie traits we breed for.

Chances are they were crossed with Welsummers to darken the eggs, that is the most common cross we see on Barnie crosses sold as Barnevelders and it makes chicks like those wild type looking chicks of yours The sad part is that the colors are all off on the adult birds and unsuspecting people get these thinking they are going to make nice double laced birds and they are disappointed.

Andy