Brahma Thread

[Tikkijane]

Hi all - this is not my bird. Someone offered him to me. I'd like to know if this is what vulture hocks look like. He doesn't look like my other DB cockerel did at that age. I'd appreciate input. Thank you.

Can you take a pic from behind?

 

[CackleJoy]

Can you take a pic from behind?

 

[CackleJoy]

Can you take a pic from behind?

 

[bumpercarr]

My partridge brahma cockerel looking a little worse for wear. The other guy is in much worse shape, which really surprises me since my brahma is only 7 months old and the other guy is almost 2 years old. My brahma probably outweighs him 2 to 1 though, so really all he needed to do was sit on him. I think most of the blood is from the other guy........

 

[Tikkijane]

I don't blame you. It's hard to tell from angle whether or not they are or not. I love me some vulture hocks when they belong.

 

[big medicine]

Any opinions on selectively breeding hatchery quality stock? Perhaps the offspring several generations down may not be the perfect show quality, but does anyone believe that you can get fairly far with selective breeding? As someone with hatchery quality birds I would just like to know, although it is unlikely I would ever show so my little project isn't for a specific goal. I have no problem culling birds, either. I actually am looking forward to having nice healthy heritage breeds to butcher and I'd like to get my meat mostly from culls rather than breed specifically for meat. Has anyone tried to improve upon hatchery stock? I even recently have been observing my birds and I have noticed that out of my five DB hens one in particular has a much better type than the others. She is broader, and just more substantial than the others. I would likely use her as a foundation.

Also, when cementing a type or color in a poorly founded breed, how many generations can it take for the birds to breed true again? I only have a GLW rooster that I am crossing over my DBs at this moment. They *should* if I remember correctly produce a sex-linked cross which will be mostly for my amusement. If I had nice birds out of the cross, and selectively bred them, would I possibly be able to get birds that resemble Brahmas more than a Wyandotte? Wyandottes are a substantial bird, but my rooster isn't very large.

Just asking out of curiosity, if anyone could answer that would be lovely!

While I think given enough generations, you can mold birds to your liking, to a degree. You are limited to what your foundation birds bring to the table, genetically. You could of course, augment them by bringing in some better quality blood, which I would recommend.

Get a pair of good quality birds, fill out the rest of your breeding pen with hatchery hens. Then keep the best resulting young for next years breeders. Keep doing this over the years, and I would hazard a guess that you will end up with just about the same exact flock you would have gotten by just breeding from the bought pair, as I would think the difference in the size and type of the chicks from the bought hen, and their half siblings from the hatchery hens would be pretty evident.

I agree with BGMatt, I think the hardest features to breed up from hatchery stock would be width and overall size, I think a lot of Brahma folks who have never been to a larger show, or have seen good show stock, would be quite surprised how truly massive good large fowl Brahmas are. Come to Columbus, Ohio this November and stand next a row of light males and I think you will get the idea. I suspect if you could get a few of those guys broke to harness you could just about plow, or pull a cart with them.

Now as to a gold laced Wyandotte over dark Brahma cross. You will have multiple issues that will need to straightened out in the chicks.

It will take a few generations, or more, to get the leg feathering back to Brahma standards. All the first generation cross chicks will likely have feathers down the outside of leg and maybe some on outer toe. Breeding the F1's back together will likely produce a few with a little better leg feathers, as well as some clean legs, and more partially feathered.

Comb wise F1's will likely be cushioned combed, a combination of pea and rose combs. Will take a few generations, or more, to sort that out.

Breeding single laced to penciled pattern, will likely produce a varied pattern somewhere in between. F1 pullets will be gold based, cockerels split gold/silver. So that will take a handful of generations, or more, to breed back to which ever pattern, and color, you prefer

Now the biggest thing will be, while in the process of selecting for proper leg feathering, comb, color, and feather pattern, will be selecting for proper Brahma build. Even if you get all the individual characteristics back, but it's hung on a bird built like a Rock, you don't have a Brahma, in my book. That is a major pet peeve of mine, some of these people hawking these newer colors, that don't have an ounce of Brahma type to them. And some of these are varieties that I built. It does not take long for irresponsible breeding to undue a lifetime of work.

So are you seeing a pattern here ? Figuring the price of feed, housing, the thousands of chicks you will have to produce for the handful you select to continue your project over many years you would be easily 10's of thousands of dollars ahead to go out and buy some good stock to start with. Especially if it's an already established variety.

 

[Tim63]

Funny you should mention the harness, Gary. Chad has an OLD photo, 100 years plus, of a light cock pulling a small buggy with a toddler in it. They really are HUGE.

 

[BGMatt]

Just to be the third to reemphasize, hatchery birds are approximately half the size of well bred Brahmas. Tim and Gary are not exaggerating. It works that way with all the Asiatics. I get the same thing when someone used to hatchery birds sees my Langshans too, and my Cochin breeding friends get the same reactions.

 

[bumpercarr]

I read somewhere that they are supposed to be about 26 inches from top of head to the ground. Is that about right, or are we talking bigger than that? I've seen several pictures of brahma cock birds that are probably in the 36 inch range...... huge, huge birds.

I edited this...first stab at it could be taken the wrong way.

 

[BGMatt]

I read somewhere that they are supposed to be about 26 inches from top of head to the ground. Is that about right, or are we talking bigger than that? I've seen several pictures of brahma cock birds that are probably in the 36 inch range...... huge, huge birds.

I edited this...first stab at it could be taken the wrong way.

Never seen a brahma THAT tall. Brahmas I see are in the 26-28' range for height, taller than Cochins, shorter than the Langshans generally. Remember the Standard doesn't say anything specific about height.

Edit: But yes, the first word that comes to mind when viewing a well bred Brahma is MASSIVE.