Bright Green/White Watery Poo & Lethargy for several days (4 y/o Rhode Island Red)

[BeeJayBird]

This is the 4th day of my RIR passing bright green and white watery poo. I've found lots of info on BYC about this, most from posts back in 2012/2017. Not sure if I am on the right path. Could use some help trouble-shooting or a clear warning of what may come.

HISTORY: Laverne is a 4 ½ year old Rhode Island Red (non-laying). She eats 20% protein all flock feed with calcium and grit on the side. About 10 days ago she had a very bad poopy butt issue. I bathed her hind quarters, then again two days later. Six days ago, she was sitting alone in our outside pen and not moving which is not normal for her…I suspected maybe egg bound. She was given a full warm Epsom sitz bath (20 minutes) and during that time I could not feel anything unusual (not that I really knew what I was feeling). She tolerated her bath well (very docile) but when dry and returned to her flock, she stayed to herself either standing or sitting. Have not observed any hunching/penguin walking. During this time, she was rewarded with some meal worms which she ate happily. That night, she was the first to head into the coop at bedtime, so I thought all was good. However, the next morning she was off by herself again, so I moved her inside on Tuesday to a mudroom hospital area to observe her. She seemed perfectly content to be where she was. No outward signs of distress, though her crop seemed a bit large and hard on one side and squishy on the other. I looked up everything possible on impacted crop and sour crop on BYC. Followed some of the suggestions, including massage which I believe helped (but no upside-down/vomiting attempts). The next morning her crop was way down, felt better, and there was bright green and white “watery stuff” in the pine shavings. I thought my expert crop massage was successful and she vomited parsley!! I had put some fresh parsley outside over a week ago for them, but no one seemed interested in it. But here it was, fresh parsley vomited up and I had obviously solved Laverne’s crop problem. I was magic!

NOPE.

Although she was alert, making clucking sounds to me, eating and drinking (just a bit), she would still not get up and leave her bed. I removed her from the bed and saw in the pine shavings more and more of the bright green/white watery stuff and realized it was not vomit, it was poop. Back to BYC and research and discovering pictures and posts and all kinds of information from 2012, 2017 from folks experiencing this strange poop.

Since realizing the difference between the poop and what I thought was vomit, I have been overwhelmed by the information I have found and most of it is not very encouraging. Most agree that the bright green/white is an indication of bile, and she may not be digesting food or could be going into organ failure. She is drinking water (with chick electrolyte powder mixed in) and has an appetite. She 'looks' good. Eyes are bright. Feathers, vent...nothing seems amiss other than the lethargy. She has been eating cooked/crumbled egg yolk warmed with her mashed feed. I have included some of her oyster shell bits in that food in case she needed it, along with some small-size grit. She has also been given plain Greek yogurt (idea from BYC, which she really likes). Yesterday I saw some brown poop in the pine shavings and rejoiced! But now it is all back to the green/white watery stuff. And, today as well (Saturday). This morning I warmed her mashed feed with beef bone broth (for dogs) and tomatoes that she gobbled up.

RIGHT NOW. Laverne is outside with my husband. She has been so sedentary for days; I took her outside as it is warm and sunny. I know she is not well, but she looks good, pecking around some and digging up a bit of my mulch, walks slowly but at least she is moving. She did still poop out the green/white stuff again. I do intend for her to be back inside tonight. I also brought her sister, Shirley, out to be with her for company and did not expect this…both immediately raised up on their hind legs, wings out, neck feathers out and attacked one another. It was the most active I’ve seen Laverne in a week. It was a shock! Aside from the medical issue, does anyone know what the heck that was all about? They eventually backed off (Shirley won as she grabbed Laverne’s beak and held on). Was it because they had not seen one another for so many days? Is that normal behavior with such a re-introduction (for future reference)?

Most of what I’ve done for Laverne I’ve drawn from various BYC post suggestions which have been so helpful. Does anyone have comments on what I’ve done thus far, or advice on how best to proceed? Do you agree that this is bile and, after so many days, indicative of organ failure. Input is very much appreciated. *bjb

Pictures included: poo found in shavings on first day, poo on the pad this morning, and Laverne herself this morning.

 

[azygous]

The green bits in the poop are bile caused by not eating very much. Beyond that it isn't diagnostic. Thank you for such a detailed background on Laverne. Yes, the fight with Shirley was to reassert whichever has dominance in their relationship. If there are other chickens, expect the same from them when Laverne returns to the flock. For this reason, I rarely remove a sick chicken from the flock. It's pretty rare that contagion is an issue with most sick chickens.

Having an appetite is a good sign, but food is not making it through her system to prevent starvation, hence the green poop. A possibility is a stuck egg or other obstruction. Give her a calcium tablet right away, even if you need to go take her off her roost to slip it into her beak. It needs to get working right away. The tablet must be at least 600mg. Calcium citrate is my choice since it works fastest. Tums will do for now.

In the morning it would be a good idea to check her crop before she has any food or water so you can know the status of her crop. She may have an issue that needs treating. https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...w-to-know-which-one-youre-dealing-with.73607/

Another possibility is worms. Unless she's been wormed recently, it would be a good idea to do it. Safeguard is the safest and gentlest for a sick chicken. A half inch of the paste each day for five days. Worms can cause a slow crop as well as block the intestines so food can't pass through.

My money is on one of those as the cause of her problems. It's a very good sign that she still wants to eat, is being social, etc. For those reasons, I doubt there is any infection involved. But there always could be a cancer beginning to shut things down, but keep optimistic that this can be resolved.

 

[BeeJayBird]

• The green bits in the poop are bile caused by not eating very much.
• Having an appetite is a good sign, but food is not making it through her system to prevent starvation, hence the green poop. A possibility is a stuck egg or other obstruction.
• In the morning it would be a good idea to check her crop before she has any food or water so you can know the status of her crop. She may have an issue that needs treating. https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...w-to-know-which-one-youre-dealing-with.73607/
• Another possibility is worms. Unless she's been wormed recently
• My money is on one of those as the cause of her problems. It's a very good sign that she still wants to eat, is being social, etc. For those reasons, I doubt there is any infection involved. But there always could be a cancer beginning to shut things down, but keep optimistic that this can be resolved.

azygous, thank you for taking the time to respond!! Very kind of you. On some of your above points, the bile poop continues this morning despite her having an appetite. No change in color or consistency. She basically has had no normal poo in one week. Although her usual feed is offered warmed and mashed, she prefers the crumbled egg yolk, yogurt, and tomato bits she got this morning. As before I sprinkled some oyster shell and grit in with the food and saw her eat some. Drinking does not seem to be an issue. As you say, it appears the food is not making it through her digestive system which has to be very bad after these many days and that this may just be the calm before the storm.

We haven't gotten eggs from Laverne in months and have had no indication of a stuck egg after two sitz baths/manipulation by inexperienced hands; though nothing is impossible. The calcium tablet you suggest, do you feel she needs that when it does not appear an unlaid egg is the issue? Would that calcium help if there is no obstruction but something else going on?

The link on crop issues is great and one I've referred to many times and has been helpful in various steps.

You mention worms. I have never wormed the chickens and have only just recently seen posts about worming and that was in back of mind to question at some point as a preventative I should be doing for all birds. The more I read the more I realize how little I know and how much I need to learn. But, even if possibility of worms, would that be a cause of her digestive system shutting down and her pooing out nothing but bile?

Laverne and her two sisters (RIR & BR) are 4 1/2 years old from an original flock that came from Tractor Supply. I do not know if they were vaccinated as my son brought them home one day. They occasionally free-range now but only when someone can be with them; otherwise they have a large fenced open pen in our yard and amongst our cedar trees. A new flock of 5 pullets and 1 roo were introduced many weeks ago (they were all vaccinated for two diseases).

In reading old posts, mostly talking about treatments/medicines/tubing I'm not familiar with, there was one about Amoxicillin. I have Amoxicillin capsules (250mg). Is that something I could/should give Laverne...even though I'm unclear if she has any type of infection?

Oh, and thanks for clarifying about the incident between Laverne and her sister Shirley!! That was something to see! In a few minutes, I will be taking Laverne outside and I will try to examine her more closely. I don't have any way to weigh her, wish I did. I'll compare her weight with her sister Shirley for a comparison. My husband is going to bring her two sisters out so they can spend time together. Yesterday, after the squabble, they stayed out for many hours and all were sitting in the sun as usual.

I continue to appreciate any suggestions. It's funny how posts from a decade ago, and replies, still are so helpful today. *bjb

 

[azygous]

I've had hens that had quit laying become eggbound. Contrary to belief that once a hen ceases to lay that her attempts to lay an egg are also over is far from true. One of my biddy hens that had quit laying at around age seven kept trying to lay an egg each spring until she died at age ten. Each spring she and I would need to cope with egg binding because her body no longer would process calcium for a shell and the egg often collapsed inside her. So on top of treating the resulting binding and prolapse, which could take up to two weeks to resolve, she would also need an antibiotic for the yolk that was gathering bacteria after it ruptured inside her. Neither she nor I looked forward to these spring dramas.

Giving the calcium tablet will do absolutely no harm if she isn't egg bound. It's a small, simple and easy measure to cover that base just in case. Don't worry, an animal that swallows lizards and mice and small frogs whole will have no problem swallowing a pill.

Worm overload can cause serious issues. They can form a blockage so very little food gets processed in the intestine where nutrients get absorbed. This can and does cause starvation. One of the signs of this is a chicken that looks dull and frowzy and unkempt, the last you'd choose to win a beauty contest. At its worst, worms can cause inflammation of the intestine causing the intestinal wall to erode and die, bacteria often infecting the lining. If you have other pets that share the same area with the chickens, intestinal worms are nearly a certainty. The more moist your climate, the more you can expect to need to worm your chickens. Worming is very safe as the medicine is not a poison but basically sedates the worms so they can be flushed out of the body.

That's excellent you have the amoxy in the right dosage on hand, but right now it doesn't appear Laverne has a bacterial infection. You would know by her behavior. She would be very lethargic as you would if you were suffering from a bacterial infection.

 

[BeeJayBird]

• I've had hens that had quit laying become eggbound.
• Giving the calcium tablet will do absolutely no harm if she isn't egg bound.
• Worm overload can cause serious issues. Worming is very safe as the medicine is not a poison but basically sedates the worms so they can be flushed out of the body.
• That's excellent you have the amoxy in the right dosage on hand, but right now it doesn't appear Laverne has a bacterial infection. You would know by her behavior. She would be very lethargic as you would if you were suffering from a bacterial infection.

azygous, more good information that I'm sure others will appreciate as well. I will be sending my husband out to find the calcium you suggested. At WalMart they have Spring Valley Calcium Bone Health Dietary Supplement Tables, 600 mg., 100 count. They look kind of big...would I break in half? I appreciate knowing that giving this will cause no harm if she is not egg-bound in some way. Is the one 600mg tablet all she gets? This sounds like a good thing to have on hand. I did find a video on how to give pills, but again, this looks lto be a fairly large oblong pill.

I assume if this is just a one dose of calcium, the intent is to give her a big calcium boost to help her push out an unlaid egg?

On worming, at Tractor Supply they show the following: 1) Safe-Guard Dewormer for Puppies/Dogs, 4gm ($18.99), 2) Merck Safe-Guard Goat Dewormer, 125ml ($39.99), and 3) Merck Animal Health Safe-Guard Horse Dewormer Paste, 25g ($15.99). Recommendation?

Yes, I'm glad to hear having the Amoxicillin is good in case it is felt she does have an infection. So, a mental note to keep this stuff.

Laverne has been outside in our yard with her two sisters for a couple hours as we clean out coop and pen. She still pooped green, but she is walking slowly with the other girls, and the other girls are sticking with her.

Plan is to follow your suggestion with the calcium as soon as we get it. Also, to go get a dewormer of some kind. Please let me know which of the 3 TSC has that I should get since none say for chickens. And, how is it administered?

I will be bringing Laverne back into her hospital room for night. I will let you know how it goes with the calcium/dewormer. You are being very helpful and your guidance is much appreciated. Now...gotta tell my husband he has to go to Tractor Supply AND WalMart!! *bjb

 

[azygous]

Have him get this. Citrate is faster acting of all forms of calcium. Pry the beak open and slide it inside. Close beak. She will swallow.

 

[BeeJayBird]

Have him get this. Citrate is faster acting of all forms of calcium. Pry the beak open and slide it inside. Close beak. She will swallow.View attachment 3677171

Thank you, but my husband went to WalMart and did get the one I listed. It did not contain D3. I watched a couple of videos…tho Laverne wasn’t as calm as any of those chickens. She resisted. These were large pills so I did break it in half and got first half in her with bit of struggle…but the 2nd one, even after I thought I’d gotten it down, she spit out so hard it went across the floor! I had my husband also purchase some coconut oil, so the 3rd try I coated and got it in her. I then treated her with cooked egg yolk and made sure she drank water. Whew! I hope she will forgive me. She is down for the night.

Did you have a suggestion for dewormer? I have not gotten that yet.

Thank you! *bjb