Chick loss

[rosemarythyme]

Yes. They did. I cleaned their butts as recommended and I thought they would be okay.

After cleaning did you continue to check throughout the day for re-clogging? Also if you have a thermometer, do you have temperatures immediately under heat lamp, and at the far end away from it? Hotter temperatures can cause or worsen pasty butt.

 

[50-45-1]

Hi, sorry you are loosing chicks.
50 years raising baby chicks in a cardboard box with pine shavings here. I dont think either of those are the problem.
Were the chicks vacinated?
Is the chick starter you are using medicated?
I would really like to see a picture of your set up. Is it in the house or garage?
(Someone here just lost all there chicks because they did a quick self clean on there kitchen oven and the fumes killed the chicks)
Brooder temp, how are the chicks acting? All over the box, piled up under the lamp, sleeping on the outer reaches of the box escaping the light....?
I hope you dont loose any more.

 

[LaFemmeKatia]

Can you post a pic of your setup?

Hi, sorry you are loosing chicks.
50 years raising baby chicks in a cardboard box with pine shavings here. I dont think either of those are the problem.
Were the chicks vacinated?
Is the chick starter you are using medicated?
I would really like to see a picture of your set up. Is it in the house or garage?
(Someone here just lost all there chicks because they did a quick self clean on there kitchen oven and the fumes killed the chicks)
Brooder temp, how are the chicks acting? All over the box, piled up under the lamp, sleeping on the outer reaches of the box escaping the light....?
I hope you dont loose any more.
[/QUOTE

I made my brooder out of a cardboard box. I am using pine shavings (as advised by Backyard Chickens). I am feeding DuMor 20% Chick Starter. Not medicated. I got them at Tractor Supply so I don’t believe they have any vaccinations. I keep their bowl filled and I change their drinking water frequently. The water gets dirty often.
At first I used a 75 watt bulb and had a blanket over 2/3rds of the box and it seemed warm enough in there to me, but I didn’t have a thermometer. I have since purchased a red heat lamp bulb (250 watts) AND a thermometer. I have it between 88 and 90 degrees, and they seem happy.
They are in my bedroom where it never gets drafty or air-conditioned. My room is in the 70s.

 

[LaFemmeKatia]

@LaFemmeKatia, sorry for the loss of chicks.

1. possible overheating. Chicks must be able to get away from the heat. How big is box, where isheat lamp positioned?

2. Did you see them eating and drinking regularly? We will take chicks when first brought home and dip their beaks into the water. Careful to not get them too deep or wet. The chick will put its head back and beak pointed up in order to swallow the water. Make sure they get a drink of water. We monitor to make sure they are all going to the waterer and successfully drinking.

3. Are you offering plain water (nothing added to it)?

4. Pine shavings are perfectly fine and safe. However, I personally use puppy pee pads for the first 3 days so the chicks only have water and food to eat and not shavings to try to eat. Also, I can see mobility of the chicks better and amount/color of poop. After 3 days they get shavings.

5. Pasty butt. It is common to have a chick or two with pasty butt. This is when the poop blocks the vent on the outside and the chick cannot poop anymore. They can die from this. I take the chick in palm, with their neck gently between my two fingers. This keeps them well supported and minimizes wriggling. Using warm water, I wash their vent area until poop is removed. Try to keep them as dry as possible otherwise. Immediately wrapped in paper towel to blot dry and keep them from squirming, then directly to the brooder and under heat. They can get pasty butt if they get dehydrated, so too hot or not drinking enough water contributes to this.

I think they were not warm enough, possibly. I was using a 75 watt bulb, it was all I had, until yesterday when I was able to get a 250 watt red bulb, AND a thermometer so I can regulate their heat. I keep them in my room, because it never gets chilly or drafty there. My room is always warm.
The first one was weak and not as energetic. The second one seemed pretty robust so I was taken by surprise.
The remaining two are eating and drinking well, and pretty active.

 

[LaFemmeKatia]

After cleaning did you continue to check throughout the day for re-clogging? Also if you have a thermometer, do you have temperatures immediately under heat lamp, and at the far end away from it? Hotter temperatures can cause or worsen pasty butt.

I did keep check on their butt situation, so I don’t think that was it, unless they were sick.
The temperature is between 88 and 90, at the far end. The two remaining chicks seem happy and perky. They are eating and drinking well.

 

[LaFemmeKatia]

@LaFemmeKatia, sorry for the loss of chicks.

1. possible overheating. Chicks must be able to get away from the heat. How big is box, where isheat lamp positioned?

2. Did you see them eating and drinking regularly? We will take chicks when first brought home and dip their beaks into the water. Careful to not get them too deep or wet. The chick will put its head back and beak pointed up in order to swallow the water. Make sure they get a drink of water. We monitor to make sure they are all going to the waterer and successfully drinking.

3. Are you offering plain water (nothing added to it)?

4. Pine shavings are perfectly fine and safe. However, I personally use puppy pee pads for the first 3 days so the chicks only have water and food to eat and not shavings to try to eat. Also, I can see mobility of the chicks better and amount/color of poop. After 3 days they get shavings.

5. Pasty butt. It is common to have a chick or two with pasty butt. This is when the poop blocks the vent on the outside and the chick cannot poop anymore. They can die from this. I take the chick in palm, with their neck gently between my two fingers. This keeps them well supported and minimizes wriggling. Using warm water, I wash their vent area until poop is removed. Try to keep them as dry as possible otherwise. Immediately wrapped in paper towel to blot dry and keep them from squirming, then directly to the brooder and under heat. They can get pasty butt if they get dehydrated, so too hot or not drinking enough water contributes to this.

They did have pasty butt. I cleaned it with warm water as The instructions tell you, and patted them dry. I kept an eye on that afterward and they seemed okay .
Well, the first one never seemed okay, she was weak and more “sleepy“. The second one seemed great and I was shocked to find her dead in the morning.
At this point the remaining two appear to be healthy and happy.

 

[LaFemmeKatia]

I'm not talking out of my butt people.. Bona fide research went into this. I can get pine shavings for free. I would never use it for anything but meat birds because they don't live long anyways.. I would never use it with chicks.
Exposure to pine dust can cause a wide range of symptoms, including:

• Shortness of breath
• Nasal irritation
• Eye irritation
• Throat irritation
• Flu-like symptoms
• Chronic bronchitis
• Wheezing
• Coughing
• Airflow obstruction
• Chest tightness
• Reduced lung function
• Contact dermatitis
• Asthma
• Rhinitis-like reactions with or without asthma

(from Whitehead et al., 1981; Pisaniello et al., 1991; Shamssain, M., 1992; Halpin et al., 1994; Hessel et al., 1995; Demers et al., 1997; The MAK-Collection for Occupational Health and Safety, 2013)
exposure-related airflow obstruction and respiratory symptoms are observed with both ‘allergenic’ and ‘nonallergenic’ wood dusts, including common species such as pine, spruce, and fir.
Paul Demers and Colleagues, 1997, p. 393

When abietic acid from pine wood is inhaled, it destroys the cells in the airway and lungs (Ayars et al., 1989). When human and rat alveolar epithelial cells, rat lungs, and tracheal tissues were exposed to abietic acid, the solution caused cell disintegration and sloughing.

Numerous studies show that both pine and cedar bedding drastically increase hepatic microsomal enzyme activities and are cytotoxic to the liver (e.g., Vesell, 1967; Cunliffe-Beamer, 1981; Törrönen et al., 1989; Connors et al., 1990; Potgieter et al., 1995; Pelkonen and Hänninen, 1997). Others have found that the chemicals in pine bedding also alter aspects of endocytosis (Buddaraju and Van Dyke, 2003).


Marinell Harriman and Colleagues, 1989

The International Agency for Research on Cancer classifies pine dust as a carcinogen.

Several studies document that workers exposed to pine have a much higher rate of cancer, particularly cancer that affects the nasal passages and glottis (e.g., Hernberg et al., 1983; Voss et al., 1985; Boysen et al., 1986; Maier et al, 1992; see Demers et al., 1997 for a full review).

Wow. Everyone advised me to use this.
so, what do you use instead?

 

[starri33]

I woke up this morning to find another of my baby chicks died sometime during the night.
I bought four chickens three days ago at Tractor supply. They are my first chickens. I made a brooder with a cardboard box, bought a heat lamp, I am using pine shavings for bedding. I keep their water and food clean. I feed them Dumor chick starter, that is what the store was feeding them.
The first fatality was yesterday, and that chick was weak and sleepy, and just faded.
This chick was perky and happy last night before I went to bed. Eating and drinking water.
The remaining two are happy and appear healthy too.
What could the problem be?

I'm sorry to hear about your babies, I'm currently using the puppy pads for mine, I've had issue with chicks I've gotten from Tractor Supply, how long had you had them home? I found out that the lot I'd bought mine out of had been left sitting at the post office most of the day, someone some where had dropped the ball with them, a friend who I'd shared the order with lost her's on the 2nd day home, I'd lost mine on the 3rd. I called them and they made it right gave me two more. That is when I found out about the post office. Over heating, getting chilled and paste butt can all kill them. if you have some kinda thermometer, place it in their box and that way you can see if you need to adjust it. Rather than using a cardboard box, I've bought plastic totes. I keep my heat around 90 and then lower it over time. I've raised several hatches that way and not had a issue.

 

[LaFemmeKatia]

I'm sorry to hear about your babies, I'm currently using the puppy pads for mine, I've had issue with chicks I've gotten from Tractor Supply, how long had you had them home? I found out that the lot I'd bought mine out of had been left sitting at the post office most of the day, someone some where had dropped the ball with them, a friend who I'd shared the order with lost her's on the 2nd day home, I'd lost mine on the 3rd. I called them and they made it right gave me two more. That is when I found out about the post office. Over heating, getting chilled and paste butt can all kill them. if you have some kinda thermometer, place it in their box and that way you can see if you need to adjust it. Rather than using a cardboard box, I've bought plastic totes. I keep my heat around 90 and then lower it over time. I've raised several hatches that way and not had a issue.

I’m almost afraid to say I think I’m on the right track now. My heat is stable, the chicks look strong and happy. They are eating and drinking well.

 

[BigBlueHen53]

Great to hear they're doing well. When I've ordered chicks (over a dozen, twice), the hatchery sent me a couple extra, because losses at that early age are not uncommon. If you only have a few, those losses can be devastating. A little easier to lose one or two if you start with 18 to 20.