Cochin breeding, genetics, and showing

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well if he crosses back to columbian most hatches will be columbian as they will be homozygous for eb....BUT a few of them will still be Er/eb and that will make them Birchen, but why? dont' know what you gain by doing that, the extra mossines?(white lacing on black background)

The point is I am trying to improve type on Columbians by bringing in type from Blacks. That is why I made the cross. Hoping to improve type. Next year will be trying the outcross using a Mottled male on a good Columbian hen. Again to try to improve type.

using Columbian boy over Partridge hen would be the best way, since Black as you call them are dominant over Columbian so its kinda hard to visualize them if they look Birchen instead of columbian, but if you cross them to partridge(I know they are gold instead of silver based) you will get to see columbian hens and you can see how good they look as they will be silver and columbian... but I guess you have to work with what you've got...
 
Quote:
The point is I am trying to improve type on Columbians by bringing in type from Blacks. That is why I made the cross. Hoping to improve type. Next year will be trying the outcross using a Mottled male on a good Columbian hen. Again to try to improve type.

using Columbian boy over Partridge hen would be the best way, since Black as you call them are dominant over Columbian so its kinda hard to visualize them if they look Birchen instead of columbian, but if you cross them to partridge(I know they are gold instead of silver based) you will get to see columbian hens and you can see how good they look as they will be silver and columbian... but I guess you have to work with what you've got...

You are correct about using what I have. I also have Partridge but the type while good is not as good as the Blacks. I feel I have to go with the best type if I want to try to improve type no matter the color.

Craig
 
Quote:
using Columbian boy over Partridge hen would be the best way, since Black as you call them are dominant over Columbian so its kinda hard to visualize them if they look Birchen instead of columbian, but if you cross them to partridge(I know they are gold instead of silver based) you will get to see columbian hens and you can see how good they look as they will be silver and columbian... but I guess you have to work with what you've got...

You are correct about using what I have. I also have Partridge but the type while good is not as good as the Blacks. I feel I have to go with the best type if I want to try to improve type no matter the color.

Craig

True.. so how do you go about it..?

I guess the first thing you did was to mate Columbian to Brichen, all chicks came out looking birchen.. did you bred back to Birchen(Black) or back to columbian? or F1 x F1?
 
Quote:
You are correct about using what I have. I also have Partridge but the type while good is not as good as the Blacks. I feel I have to go with the best type if I want to try to improve type no matter the color.

Craig

True.. so how do you go about it..?

I guess the first thing you did was to mate Columbian to Brichen, all chicks came out looking birchen.. did you bred back to Birchen(Black) or back to columbian? or F1 x F1?

The first mating is Columbian male on Black female. Only kept one chick that has good type (the one I pictured above). I will decide next spring if she has the body type I want to pass on. If so I will breed her back to my SQ Columbian male. Will raise those and see if I get birds of better type than my average Columbians. I so I will take those and again breed back to Columbians always culling for type. If I ever get to a point where I am not further improving type I will probably go back to a Black or Mottled to bring back better type. I will hatch plenty and cull hard with a goal in mind. At the same time I am going to continue breeding Columbians as I do now. Hatch lots and cull hard.
49643_300.jpg
x
49643_0007.jpg
in 4-5 years will know if I have made any improvements in type.
Craig
 
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Argh!!!
barnie.gif

Thank you Gail, I'm going to have to go back to Genetics 101, refresh myself and fill in some gaping holes I have in my self education. I'm seeing that I don't have a good enough understanding of alleles, so I'll fill that hole. That said, it really makes my head spin to find out that Birchen is not a color. You're so right about something having been bred into them in the past. There are two hens that I'm pretty sure come from the Black/Columbian cross. I don't mean they are the results of that cross, but that is their origin several generations ago. The other hen comes from a Birchen/Mottled cross and she IS the result of that cross. She came to me as a lovely Birchen pullet and matured into a gorgeous Mottled hen.
hmm.png
She's a story for another time, I just want to understand the other 2 hens and how to best breed my particular birds. I got them actually because they are slightly understated as Birchen color goes. My roo is very nice, but I don't want any heavier lacing on what he is bred to for fear of getting too much on the offspring. In looking for the more subtle markings on the hens, is that how I ended up with the Birchen look-a-like rather than actual Birchen color.

Columbian as Co does not have an effect on Birchen...

show us the pics please

They are already up, if you'd like to look at the beginning of this thread, I believe around page 3 or there abouts.
 
Quote:
True.. so how do you go about it..?

I guess the first thing you did was to mate Columbian to Brichen, all chicks came out looking birchen.. did you bred back to Birchen(Black) or back to columbian? or F1 x F1?

The first mating is Columbian male on Black female. Only kept one chick that has good type (the one I pictured above). I will decide next spring if she has the body type I want to pass on. If so I will breed her back to my SQ Columbian male. Will raise those and see if I get birds of better type than my average Columbians. I so I will take those and again breed back to Columbians always culling for type. If I ever get to a point where I am not further improving type I will probably go back to a Black or Mottled to bring back better type. I will hatch plenty and cull hard with a goal in mind. At the same time I am going to continue breeding Columbians as I do now. Hatch lots and cull hard.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/49643_300.jpg x
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/49643_0007.jpg in 4-5 years will know if I have made any improvements in type.
Craig

I don't know if my attempt at improving type will work. I know that you have a hard time improving type unless you go out to a bird that has type. If there is an easier way please let me know. I don't think I will have trouble telling type no matter what color the f1 or f2,3,4 come out. I am looking at what Tom has done with his self blues and seeing the improvement in type in 3-4 years. I agree with jarvis that going out to silver laced would be the easiest route but I know of none being bred that are better typed than my Columbians. If I were to see one at Crossroads I would have to come home poorer but with that bird. I am very open to suggestions. I am not saying my route is the best but is currently my only option.
Craig
 
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