Crested Cream Legbar Genotype vs. Phenotype

[nicalandia]

here is a sample of a Silver Crele Dutch Bantam that shows no Stippling on the saddle, shoulders and no barring on secondaries(no grey barring)..

basically what a Silver Crele birds should look like.. CCL even the Silver looking one should not look Silver Crele.. They have a distinctive look

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

Marking this to read later

 

[lonnyandrinda]

Posting this in all the CL threads so that everyone will have a chance to see him.


Cockerel from Jill Rees line in the UK, expected availability from Greenfire Farms is Q2 of 2013.

You meant 2014, not 2013, right?

Although his color is better than most US birds I'm not sure his type is any better. His comb is smaller overall, yes, but it still has a funny wrinkle at the front (which he may well grow out of) and his tail looks close to 90 degrees, I'm guessing as he matures it will move to a squirrel tail. His chest is flat too, again something he will hopefully grow out of. Leg color is a bit light, but that may be time of year, beak, eye, and earlobe look great though!

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
from the Pics, the rooster's on Jill Rees website appears to have squirrel tail... check the link

 

[ChicKat]

whoops, yes -- meant 2014, since 2013 Q2 is past.

 

[tadkerson]

You meant 2014, not 2013, right?

yes, but it still has a funny wrinkle at the front (which he may well grow out of)

My experience with the crest and combes is that it will be very difficult to get away from the wrinkle on the anterior end of the comb. The crest is causing the wrinkle -that is why many crested breeds have a duplex comb.

Tim

 

[ChicKat]

Just read Tim's article here:

http://plumage.forum-actif.net/t17019-o-o
Thanks for sending me the link TheTropix Fabulous article Tim--- maybe by the 5th time I have read it through I will have absorbed MOST of it..........

And went to the egg-color charts on Feathersite here just to look over the "greens" once again.

http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGA/Arau/BRKArauEgg.html

Then had a light-bulb-moment, because on the British Araucana Chart there are three photos of Araucanas... The left most with the puffy-bouffant style crest, the center one with the tufts and the right hand one with what I think is the best-looking Cream Legbar Crest style.

SO -- THAT probably rather than the Polish influence is where the more puffy-bouffant crests come from on recent Cream Legbars. Our UK friends (somewhere) have outcrossed to Araucanas. Only the British Araucanas have the crests. The photos on the Brit egg card, also show a bit of a beard and puffy cheeks - almost a muff on the birds - could be the photo angle.

One side note is that someone said in the UK there was a Cream Legbar in a show that had a beard/muff.

At the very bottom of the feathersite page, Mr Frank Decmar shows some prize winning Green eggs. Mr. Decmar is the person who created the original color chart for Araucanas in the UK. There are more colors on these egg charts that are green to my eye/monitor (and I just got new glasses today!) I've had this chart for over a year...and just this morning really looked at the Brit Araucana Crests. Brits don't seem as interested in egg color as we are here in the states...and I suspect Mr. Decmar's eggs are Araucana's.

One last thought, If a blue-egg layer had some brown going into the palisade layer the interior and the exterior of the shell wouldn't be identical in color. My eggs really are the same inside and out--- don't know if this old post will show it -- but it identifies that there isn't a visible difference to exterior and interior of blue-green shell.

1 = same interior and exterior color 2 = same saturation as brown egg 3 = B&W showing same color intensity of blue/green and brown egg. Note: the smallest chip was from my white egg-layer as a comparison. It shows in the B&W version of the photo.

 

[dretd]

Just read Tim's article here:

http://plumage.forum-actif.net/t17019-o-o
Thanks for sending me the link TheTropix Fabulous article Tim--- maybe by the 5th time I have read it through I will have absorbed MOST of it..........

And went to the egg-color charts on Feathersite here just to look over the "greens" once again.

http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGA/Arau/BRKArauEgg.html

Then had a light-bulb-moment, because on the British Araucana Chart there are three photos of Araucanas... The left most with the puffy-bouffant style crest, the center one with the tufts and the right hand one with what I think is the best-looking Cream Legbar Crest style.

SO -- THAT probably rather than the Polish influence is where the more puffy-bouffant crests come from on recent Cream Legbars. Our UK friends (somewhere) have outcrossed to Araucanas. Only the British Araucanas have the crests. The photos on the Brit egg card, also show a bit of a beard and puffy cheeks - almost a muff on the birds - could be the photo angle.

One side note is that someone said in the UK there was a Cream Legbar in a show that had a beard/muff.

At the very bottom of the feathersite page, Mr Frank Decmar shows some prize winning Green eggs. Mr. Decmar is the person who created the original color chart for Araucanas in the UK. There are more colors on these egg charts that are green to my eye/monitor (and I just got new glasses today!) I've had this chart for over a year...and just this morning really looked at the Brit Araucana Crests. Brits don't seem as interested in egg color as we are here in the states...and I suspect Mr. Decmar's eggs are Araucana's.

One last thought, If a blue-egg layer had some brown going into the palisade layer the interior and the exterior of the shell wouldn't be identical in color. My eggs really are the same inside and out--- don't know if this old post will show it -- but it identifies that there isn't a visible difference to exterior and interior of blue-green shell.

1 = same interior and exterior color 2 = same saturation as brown egg 3 = B&W showing same color intensity of blue/green and brown egg. Note: the smallest chip was from my white egg-layer as a comparison. It shows in the B&W version of the photo.

I have been doing a little study on my eggs at home. Some chickens do deposit the brown pigment throughout the shell formation process and not only at the end of deposition/outer shell which is the most talked about.

I stripped the inner membrane off all of these shells and took pictures with natural lighting. The interior is on the left, the exterior is on the right. The shells are not bone dry.

Top: Welsummer--Clearly the majority of the brown pigment is on the very outer layer of the shell.
Middle: Hatchery Americauna aka Easter Egger; Interior and exterior appear to be similarly colored (once the interior is bone dry is does lighten up to match)
Bottom: Cream Legbar (egg approx OAC123 but slightly bluer) The exterior is slightly more grey I believe to the bloom on the outer shell

I need to add in more of my hens (different breeds) but they are all off their lay because of light and molting so it will probably have to wait until next spring.

My speculation is that the EE has some brown pigment from the Araucana ancestry not just from the whatever the hatchery mixed in. The original description of the South American fowl did note yellow, pink, blue and green eggs. I am wondering if the pink is really tinted that goes throughout the shell? So Green may not necessarily be an indication of 'impure' breeding but rather a combination of pink and blue from the South American fowl.

Has anyone else made similar observations?

 

[ChicKat]

So Green may not necessarily be an indication of 'impure' breeding but rather a combination of pink and blue from the South American fowl.

Has anyone else made similar observations?

Great insight, great photos -- and for me a logical explanation of the green eggs that have the same shell color thoughout and thus don't have brown bloom.

 

[KPenley]

I've wondered if pink was just bloom on top of brown. When I got my Barnie eggs some of them looked pink due to the bloom, but dark brown when wet.