Crested Cream Legbar Genotype vs. Phenotype

[DeannaA]

Your girls are 100% better than the boys

. If I were you I would be on the lookout for a CLB boy that is all gray with barring. There always seem to be ones to spare on craigslist, etc. If you're ever going to be in SC, I can try to plan to have one for you.

The point behind Legbars was to have an autosexing breed that clearly showed the difference between pullets and cockerels from hatch. So the offcolors we talk about are gold in the hackles instead of cream, or too much autosomal red, when the birds are fully grown. Not males that look like females.
I don't know much about crosses, but I have never seen a 100% Legbar male that looks like yours. Even my 1/2 Legbar 1/2 Silkies look like female Legbars with too much fluff. I would have to agree that your boys are either crosses or some Ameraucana or Easter Egger eggs got mixed up in the bator. Accidents do happen. They are beautiful though!

Everything else I have gotten from the breeder has been great, so I'm not upset over it. He said he gets very few roosters with any of his breeds. He said he has had the least roosters with the legbars. I had 2 roosters out of 7 eggs and all 7 hatched. The Marans, 1 out of 6 eggs. I am happy about it. I wish I knew how to do it on purpose.

 

[KPenley]

Everything else I have gotten from the breeder has been great, so I'm not upset over it. He said he gets very few roosters with any of his breeds. He said he has had the least roosters with the legbars. I had 2 roosters out of 7 eggs and all 7 hatched. The Marans, 1 out of 6 eggs. I am happy about it. I wish I knew how to do it on purpose.

He didn't happen to use fermented feed did he? I've had consistently higher female to male ratios when I was feeding fermented feed versus dry.

 

[DeannaA]

He didn't happen to use fermented feed did he? I've had consistently higher female to male ratios when I was feeding fermented feed versus dry.

I'll have to ask but I use fermented feed.

I hope it works for me too. I have been especially lucky with hen to rooster ratio. Which is great because I am not so good at selling or giving away any of babies. I will learn. I have to find a few roosters in the spring. So much better than having to get rid of some.

 

[DeannaA]

The guy I bought my chicks from, got his breeders from Greenfire. I have been reading that they had more colorful Legbars in the begining but now they are more cream. I know the name is cream but is there another color? If not, are the colorful ones undesirable? I saw pictures of Jill Rees's Roosters and they are different from what I have seen in the US. I like the colorful ones myself but I understand that may not be what's best. Maybe there can be a Rainbow Creasted Legbar?

If so, I think I have 2 roosters ....

 

[ChicKat]

The guy I bought my chicks from, got his breeders from Greenfire. I have been reading that they had more colorful Legbars in the begining but now they are more cream. I know the name is cream but is there another color? If not, are the colorful ones undesirable? I saw pictures of Jill Rees's Roosters and they are different from what I have seen in the US. I like the colorful ones myself but I understand that may not be what's best. Maybe there can be a Rainbow Creasted Legbar?

If so, I think I have 2 roosters ....

Hi DeannaA---

IMO your question lands squarely in the middle of a discussion that is going on now among Cream Legbar people in the USA. At one point, the thought was that the Cream Legbar should look identical to a silver legbar with the exception of a crest. A judge in the UK answered a question posed by KPenley saying that the correct cream is neither Silver nor White but is the color of light butter.

So many people have a strong preference for the non-silver-looking birds that seem to be very much front-and-center in the UK, that I'm telling people if they prefer the silver-look that is what they should raise---but not because it is in any genetically superior or more cream colored than the bird that has more coloration.

There were plans to go through the proposed USA draft of the Standard of Perfection (SOP) line item by line item, with photo examples, I believe -- and this is something that has been called for for over 6-months now. Questions would focus on what is 'correct' from what I understand - so definitely stay tuned. If you are a member of the Cream Legbar Club - there will be an article on the genetic configuration in the soon to come out newsletter. HTH

 

[blackbirds13]

I think we are on a fools errand if we create multiple multi-colored versions of the Legbar. What color is light butter (and I believe the quote here is not quite correctly stated)? What color is cream? How many folks have seen, bred or bred forward a cream Colored Cream Legbar bird here in the US? This is all theory for most folks. It's not a matter of genetic superiority it's a matter of genetical correctness in the end.

 

[DeannaA]

Hi DeannaA---

IMO your question lands squarely in the middle of a discussion that is going on now among Cream Legbar people in the USA. At one point, the thought was that the Cream Legbar should look identical to a silver legbar with the exception of a crest. A judge in the UK answered a question posed by KPenley saying that the correct cream is neither Silver nor White but is the color of light butter.

So many people have a strong preference for the non-silver-looking birds that seem to be very much front-and-center in the UK, that I'm telling people if they prefer the silver-look that is what they should raise---but not because it is in any genetically superior or more cream colored than the bird that has more coloration.

There were plans to go through the proposed USA draft of the Standard of Perfection (SOP) line item by line item, with photo examples, I believe -- and this is something that has been called for for over 6-months now. Questions would focus on what is 'correct' from what I understand - so definitely stay tuned. If you are a member of the Cream Legbar Club - there will be an article on the genetic configuration in the soon to come out newsletter. HTH

I think we are on a fools errand if we create multiple multi-colored versions of the Legbar. What color is light butter (and I believe the quote here is not quite correctly stated)? What color is cream? How many folks have seen, bred or bred forward a cream Colored Cream Legbar bird here in the US? This is all theory for most folks. It's not a matter of genetic superiority it's a matter of genetical correctness in the end.

The ones I saw, the ones mine came from, had cream hens but the roosters were barred but with several colors. I think they are beautiful. I didn't know that wasn't what they were supposed to look. Too bad. They are the most beautiful roosters I have seen of any breed. Like a patchwork quilt. I'll just use them for my eating egg hens. Now, I'll be on the look out for a cream rooster.

 

[HaplessRunner]

The ones I saw, the ones mine came from, had cream hens but the roosters were barred but with several colors. I think they are beautiful. I didn't know that wasn't what they were supposed to look. Too bad. They are the most beautiful roosters I have seen of any breed. Like a patchwork quilt. I'll just use them for my eating egg hens. Now, I'll be on the look out for a cream rooster.

Deanna,

As ChicKat and Blackbirds13 have indicated, your question has landed right in the middle of an ongoing discussion that has quieted somewhat in recent months given the UK judge referring to the "correct color" as a "light butter." I, too, like the colors in the cream legbar that are predominant in the current US population. Not everyone agrees with this view but many, many do. FWIW, here are some pictures of my cream legbars that were shown in the Virginia Poultry Breeders Association show on November 23, 2013.


Cockerel #1 - Reserve Breed - This guy is my main breeder. His type is extremely good and colors are also good.


Cockerel #2 - Type is much worse, but good colors and a very good tail. He will probably be culled or sold.



Cockerel #3 - Decent type but too much red/gold coloring. Because he is such large size, I may keep him for selective breeding or CCL crosses.



The Cockerels above were ranked in this numerical order by the APA judge.

These were my pullets at the show:

Pullet #1 - Best in Breed - Her colors are almost "ideal" and she is of decent size. Many CCL pullets in the US are undersized.



Pullet #2 - Good type but she is not homozygous for cream and she is undersized. She has the cream gene and will be used for breeding.




As you can see from the pictures above, my cockerels are not grayed-out in their coloration. The response I got from many folks at the show indicated a strong desire for the striking colors that the CCL has. Each breeder can breed to what ever they choose.

As far as genetic correctness goes, I do not have a deep understanding of the genetics that are involved with CCLs. I can say, legitimately, that the genetics for CCLs are all over the map. If you look at the colors that have been produced in many pullets you will find some with "ideal" colors with cream hackles and and crests, some with gold toned colors with some level of gold tint in some of the hackle feathers and gold tinted crests, and finally, some with black crests, darker breast feathers with undertones of black and black tips on the breast feathers.

All of these have originated from Greenfire Farms imports. All are "pure bred" cream legbars. There is still a lot too learn and figure out with this breed. As with any human endeavor, humans can paint themselves into pretty little corners to support their opinions and points of view. It is up to us to keep an open mind and maintain an understanding of different points of view, whether we agree or disagree.

 

[DeannaA]

Thanks for the pictures. ANd for the information.

 

[KPenley]

...this is something that has been called for for over 6-months now.

Are you trying to tell me that I'm running behind?

Sorry, life has been kind of crazy. The first part should be out next month