Crossbreeding dual purpose breeds for sustainable flock

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

Breeders ship chicks too, y'all. I have standardbred brown leghorns from a breeder out there that are heavier, better growers and better muscled then any of the dual purpose hatchery breeds I've tried.

I guess my point is that regardless of whether you go with freedom rangers, bresse, or dual purpose birds from a breeder, there is no benefit to adding dual purpose hatchery stock to your line. It'll only make what you're working with worse.

 

[HomesteadNowhere]

I've been thinking about this project as I'm working on everything else here in the works. Decided to go with the mixed birds and freedom rangers.

Freedom rangers will kind of act as the known meatbird in my experiment. Grow out in 9-11 weeks. I can compare the others to them. I also am planning to keep back a few for crossing. I started a thread asking about the dwarf genes I've seen mentioned. I don't want to weed out dwarfs if it's going to be a big hassle. We shall see.

Heavy assortment roos. Brown egg layer hens. I posted previously what the breeds included are so I won't repeat the big list. I'm hoping this will give me a good range of birds to choose from.

Hens- (25 sexed) I'll probably keep all the layer hens excepting really small, slow growing, deformities, etc. I can cull down more once I get some F1s.

Roos- (25 sexed) Plan is to keep the best 2 at least. Depending on how many look really good at butcher time will decide. If there was 3 or 4 really nice roos it will give me more genetic spread to start. But need to make sure they are really nice ones.

Freedom rangers- (25 straight run) Most destined for the freezer. I'm waiting to learn more on the genetics. Was planning on the best 2 roos for cross breeding.

After reviewing the breeds information and my goals I have a short list of breeds I'd be interested in getting more hens of. Waiting to see how the assortments look though. But based on the info alone...
Light brahma: m 12#, f 9.5#, laying better, meat better, reliable broody.
Dark cornish: m 10#, f 8#, laying good, meat excellent, reliable broody.
Orpington: m 10#, f 8#, laying good, meat excellent, reliable broody.
Sussex: m 9#, f 7#, laying good, meat excellent, reliable broody.
Turken: m 8.5#, f 6.5#, laying better, meat better, reliable broody.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

I've said this before, probably even on this thread- You are not going to get good results using hatchery stock birds. The weights reported on hatchery web sites are for standard bred birds which they do not offer. The birds will be smaller.

I've no personal experience but have read on the BYC pages their is a hatchery offering Heritage Plymouth Rocks which are large in size. Though I don't recall the hatchery name do recall they were asking a premium price for them.

To me it simply doesn't make sense to source breeds from hatcheries if they are charging the same or more than you can get them from local breeders. I strongly urge you to source breed(s) from a breeder that has standard bred stock if you are wanting a dual purpose or foundation stock for meat projects.

 

[NatJ]

After reviewing the breeds information and my goals I have a short list of breeds I'd be interested in getting more hens of. Waiting to see how the assortments look though. But based on the info alone...
Light brahma: m 12#, f 9.5#, laying better, meat better, reliable broody.
Dark cornish: m 10#, f 8#, laying good, meat excellent, reliable broody.
Orpington: m 10#, f 8#, laying good, meat excellent, reliable broody.
Sussex: m 9#, f 7#, laying good, meat excellent, reliable broody.
Turken: m 8.5#, f 6.5#, laying better, meat better, reliable broody.

When you get chickens from hatcheries, weigh them on occasion to see what you are really working with.
Hatchery chickens tend toward middle-sized. The really big breeds and the really small breeds will be farthest from the target weights.

I'm not saying to avoid hatchery birds, just saying to check the actual weights as you raise them.

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

Like @Egghead_Jr says, your birds will most likely come nowhere near those weights you list.

We were just discussing this on the Leghorn thread, actually. I thought a hatchery cock was a bantam! My standardbred males are as big as hatchery Orpingtons. My hatchery female is literally half the size of my standardbred females.

 

[HomesteadNowhere]

I appreciate you guys letting me know that. I simply don't have breeders (haven't found anyway) that are reliable. I don't want to bring home disease from the auction culls. I can't say that the chicks at the auction are home raised, there's too many flippers buying bulk online for cheaper and running the price up at auction.

Close to me it's amish with chickens and if you saw the conditions you wouldn't want anything from their property either. (Not to paint all amish with one brush. The ones in my immediate area just are this way.)

I have a friend with icelandic chickens. They're practically feral and do great. She never gets back to me when she hatches chicks. I'm hoping later on I could get hatching eggs.

I have another friend that I know has chickens. I'm hoping to get to her house one day to look at some rabbits. I'm going to be asking her about what chickens she has.

Other than that there simply isn't a reliable source that I've found. Knowing hatchery birds will be smaller is just going to have to be part of the starting challenges for me.

 

[Molpet]

I appreciate you guys letting me know that. I simply don't have breeders (haven't found anyway) that are reliable. I don't want to bring home disease from the auction culls. I can't say that the chicks at the auction are home raised, there's too many flippers buying bulk online for cheaper and running the price up at auction.

Close to me it's amish with chickens and if you saw the conditions you wouldn't want anything from their property either. (Not to paint all amish with one brush. The ones in my immediate area just are this way.)

I have a friend with icelandic chickens. They're practically feral and do great. She never gets back to me when she hatches chicks. I'm hoping later on I could get hatching eggs.

I have another friend that I know has chickens. I'm hoping to get to her house one day to look at some rabbits. I'm going to be asking her about what chickens she has.

Other than that there simply isn't a reliable source that I've found. Knowing hatchery birds will be smaller is just going to have to be part of the starting challenges for me.

https://livestockconservancy.nacredata.com/
You can look here

 

[HomesteadNowhere]

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[HomesteadNowhere]

Ok so meat lines frequently use dwarf hens to save feed/space. The meat birds sold are the composite offspring of four lines. The meat birds you get will carry dwarf genes if they're used. I'd be chasing dwarf genes out of the line forever.
Thanks to sex linked genes apparently I can start with the hens from the meat birds and they won't carry the dwarf genes.
I'll just have to try and pick good healthy hens to keep on for the breeding program. And given my reading of other threads don't assume a long life for them. I'll need to get a bunch of offspring from them to continue with.

 

[Molpet]

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