Darby/Miner and Spencer Hackle Genetic hackle

[SourRoses]

Please keep me apprised of your work with them, and I will do likewise!
Do you have a site available for the gentleman you purchased from?

Absolutely!

Welbars - Genetic Hackle

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Absolutely!

Welbars - Genetic Hackle

Do you happen to know if they're pick up only?

 

[SourRoses]

I will get some photos and post later tomorrow; give you the names with them, the terminology used by poultry breeders, then the corresponding names fly fishermen use for the same colors.

Thank you! That sounds really helpful! So I won't go around sounding like a dummy, lol.
Excited to talk more about them!

 

[Dovemaiden]

Check the back for the sickle feathers on the bird you suspect is a cockeral. Those crescent moon feathers will show up fairly quickly.

If you take a photo of the back saddle of the bird in question, I will probably be able to tell if it’s a cockerel & show you what to look for in sexing them. Are you versed in wing seeing at day old chicks? It makes things SOOO much easier! And you can tag their leg with a piece of colored tape on males early that way.

 

[Dovemaiden]

Dennis shipped chicks to me (Pen to FL) all were healthy and he was great to work with!

Thank you for including that link; I was able to look over his Hackle Fowl. Those all appeared to be fairly young birds except the first rooster pictured with the longer spurs and saddle hackles. I can see the subtle difference in the breeding compared to my other two lines. I think he mentioned these are laying more bantam sized eggs?
You probably are aware of this, but there are a couple of factors going on with smaller size.
Genetic Hackle Fowl(GHF) are not a purebred, they are a mix. That why we see such a variety in size, combs(!) temperament, egg laying ability, feather growth,non molting genes, etc. Some smaller breeds were added, some larger. It is NOT just the Rhode Island Red, Barred Rock and Araucana as many people state. During the years, these early breeders experimented with adding a bit of this and that— including Standard Game Fowl( probably where a lot of the colors & upright carriage appeared); Leghorns, Blue Andelusians, Columbian Rocks, Dominiques, some other type of barred Rock strain whose name escapes me, and and many unknown breeds in (Darbee quote) “a large variety of different-colored hens” in order to get the perfect Dunn ( Blue) color Darbee & others wanted. Then, Darbee sent eggs out, sort of A Johnny Appleseed of poultry! —not only to Miner to experiment with, but also to other obsessed fly fishermen who had the same dream of creating better dry-fly feathers. Darbee supplied these eggs for free during his lifetime with the admonition to basically pay it forward ( though I don’t believe he used that exact the phrase, the spirit/intent was clearly the same!) in getting these others to work on perfecting the type/length/coloration /webb-less-ness necessary to create the coveted dry flies, & streamers There is a large variation subsequently in type, reflective of this genetic background of various breeds in the different GHF lines. The resulting phenotypes will be some large fowl, some medium & others approaching a more bantam-type- sized bird.

2. As birds ( and animals) start to have a “bottle-necked population” to select for specific genetic characteristics, the overall size of the animal becomes smaller. You have probably heard this in genetics class— when you outcross a very “typy“ linebred phenotype that has been around for a good many years, usually you see a lot of primary “set”characteristics preserved in the first outcrossing( unrelated animal) but increased size almost always occurs for the first F-1 outcross. Some refer to this size increase as part of hybrid vigor.

 

[Dovemaiden]

Absolutely!

Welbars - Genetic Hackle

I thought I would mention that BrianReeder feels temperament is an integral part of selecting your males. I do agree, after dealing with many roosters throughout my life. I have not found all GHF to be laid back. A couple roosters I have ( who with feathering to DIE for!) are unable to be handled without using my raptor gloves and gauntlets.
That is a huge pain. So if you get a nice-tempered cockerel,as the one you mentioned, he is a treasure to hold onto; IF he has good phenotype( which also means he is carrying the genotype you want).
I try not to tease or taunt the cockbirds, and always stop others from doing so—it’s always visitors ( usually guys, but I sure some girls might try it as well).
You need large, individual cages for the cock birds. Large enough to keep them from damaging feathers, & with some distractions ( as you have with parrots & cage birds, cuttle bone, bells, hanging bits of colored wood to pick at, hanging vegetation they could eat, etc ) to alleviate boredom, which will cause heightened aggression.
Blocking the view of other cockbirds with an opaque piece of plastic, or a wood/cardboard cut-out helps.
They GHF need to be kept indoors to keep the feather- color from fading under the sun’s UV light. However, t I do allow my breeder birds time in outdoor pens to get sun and to dig if they want. Sometimes I tether them on grass, or put them in a movable cage on grass.
If you allow hens with the cockbirds, eventually you will get hens starting to pluck —and eat!— the capes and saddle hackles. They can strip your rooster in a few hours, and teach others to do it as well. He will typically allow them to do it without making a fuss, either. It will take two years to grow back those feathers, it’s just sad to see!
It doesn’t matter how much protein or fish meal you supply those hens, or greens, seeds, supplements— it becomes a vicious, OCD habit. Not all hens do it, but the ones that do — keep them in separate pens & only allow them access to the rooster for brief, supervised breeding, then remove. A successful mating can allow sperm to be stored for as long as two weeks.
Or, you always have the AI option. AI is quite simple, though it’s a three -person operation, & you need to buy semen extender, and you have a very limited amount of time to deliver the sperm to the hen’s cloaca. It has to be a well-run, efficient group involved.

 

[Dovemaiden]

Oh awesome. I might check them out more next season then. I've been eying them as a hobby breed for my own enjoyment, but I simply can't justify hundreds or thousands per bird for my own flocks

You won’t need thousands or even hundreds —there are many, I suspect, that raise just a few & have a half dozen really good Roos that are their exceptional breeders( hardy, vigorous, good fertility, good temperament and the right phenotype/genotype). It’s easier if you just focus on one color; some people just do black barred; cream, white, etc.
you can make lots of improvements that way to one sector. It’s very rewarding snd fun.
Where you have all those different colors, it would be hard to just select a couple!
Do you have neighbors that would object to crowing with more than one roo?