Dog training methods

[KtheChickenGal]

Here's an example of a negative reinforcer. I wish there was another name for it, people hear "negative" and just shut down. They don't understand it. It's not abuse.

Jenny, my Golden, recently started licking me. I get it, she wants to be petted, and she'd had a pretty sparse life until we got her (she was a breeder until she was almost three, no socialization or interaction, just in a kennel all her life) and suddenly now she's part of a family and being loved on, room to run and so forth, and she blossoms and now she wants to SHOW affection and this is the only way she knows to do it ... but, I don't want to be licked! So what do I do? I don't want to yell at her and absolutely am not going to slap her or anything like that ... so I blow in her face, gently, while I keep petting her. PUFF! She doesn't like that very much, just like I don't like being licked, but I'm still petting her, so she knows I'm not mad at her, and as soon as she quits licking, I quit blowing. Just a quick little PUFF! Every time she licks. It doesn't take her long to make the connection. Now she comes up to be petted and her tongue may flick out but she remembers and turns her head away from me, and I pet and stroke her and tell her how wonderful she is. She wants to avoid the PUFF so she doesn't lick any more. That was my "negative reinforcer," my little correction to get her to stop licking.

I know, right? I've tried so many times to explain to other people that, in that case, negative just means taking something away, and positive means adding something.

 

[BigBlueHen53]

I know, right? I've tried so many times to explain to other people that, in that case, negative just means taking something away, and positive means adding something.

Well put. It's actually, in a way, a different kind of positive reinforcer! It's positive in the sense that that the training subject likes it when you stop doing it! Am I right? So, say you tie your dog to a post for a minute. In a choke collar. The dog pulls away. Oh, that's not comfortable! He pulls harder. Ugh, that's even worse! He struggles, bounces around a little. He happens to bounce toward the post. Bam! The collar falls loose. Hey! What just happened? Hmm. He pulls away again. Nope, that's not right! Pull, pull, jerk, bounce - ahh! Sweet release. Now he starts experimenting. Pull away ... no. Move toward .. bingo! When you get back, you unhook your dog from the post and start walking, expecting your dog to pull and fight like always and ... what's this? The collar tightens a little bit and instead of fighting you, he moves toward you and never pulls on the leash again. How did he get perfectly leash trained in those few minutes you left him tied to the post? Let's not call this negative reinforcement. Let's call it Positive Reinforcement 2.0.

 

[TexasBlues]

I appreciate trusting my dog and also them trusting me. Using a shock collar signifies a lack of trust.

 

[KtheChickenGal]

I appreciate trusting my dog and also them trusting me. Using a shock collar signifies a lack of trust.

I personally don't use one, but I'm not against them. I understand that it is a tool that can be used properly to 100% guarantee off-leash obedience. Yes, you can use an e collar incorrectly-- there will be consequences. A lot of people never even actually shock their dog, but simply train them to the sound/ vibration.
I do not use one on my dog because she has proven she can recall off leash, anywhere, around distractions, people, animals, etc. with or without treats.
I obviously don't think you should just throw an e collar on your dog because you didn't train them and then start shocking them- OF COURSE NOT! You should be able to control your dog completely without one. But I respect owners who know their dog, choose to use one, and train their dog to it and use it correctly.

 

[Pampered chicken girl]

I appreciate trusting my dog and also them trusting me. Using a shock collar signifies a lack of trust.

How so? If you mean that by using one it says you don't trust your dogs recall then maybe think of this...your dog can have a great recall but wouldn't you rather be safe then sorry when your dog is running towards a busy road? You drive a car, you have car insurance, not because you don't trust yourself but just in case.

 

[KtheChickenGal]

How so? If you mean that by using one it says you don't trust your dogs recall then maybe think of this...your dog can have a great recall but wouldn't you rather be safe then sorry when your dog is running towards a busy road? You drive a car, you have car insurance, not because you don't trust yourself but just in case.

Very true! Well said.

 

[BigBlueHen53]

Any training tool must be used with knowledge, intelligence, consistency, compassion and discretion, and an ecollar is no exception. A choke collar can be abusive as can a head collar or even a retractable leash. Using an ecollar without knowledge, training or understanding can certainly be abusive, but as a trainer I've seen evidence of damage on dogs' necks by standard slip-chain (choke) collars. This included broken hair around the neck, swelling and heat from constant jerking on the leash and coughing by the dog as it was allowed to lean into the collar and drag the handler around. If you don't know how to fit, install or use your training equipment, please hire a knowledgeable professional. Don't assume a piece of equipment is abusive if you don't understand how to properly use it.

 

[TexasBlues]

If we are around a busy road, I'll keep my dog on leash. That's just common sense.

I have car insurance because it's the law.

 

[Pampered chicken girl]

If we are around a busy road, I'll keep my dog on leash. That's just common sense.

Ok, so you are on a dog friendly trail and there's a snake, another dog, another person, etc. The road was an example. Heck even if the dog gets out accidentally

I have car insurance because it's the law.

Well, most people would have it either way at least. Again EXAMPLE

 

[TexasBlues]

Aversive methods often work by suppressing a behavior out of fear or discomfort. While this might appear to be a quick fix, it doesn't teach the dog what to do instead. True training involves teaching the dog a desired behavior and creating a positive association with it. This builds a more reliable and willing partner.