Examples of how predators get inside a chicken run and coop

[Sunshine Flock]

We had a coyote come within ten feet of grabbing a chicken. They were free ranging, and we're rural in the woods. It was quite amazing to see a crouching coyote like that, ready to spring, and a miracle I saw what was happening in time to yell and scare off the coyote.

But with the chicken run and coop, that's protected space, and yet predators manage to infiltrate them all the time. We're new to raising chickens as of this year. Our flock is six months old. The coop is on a cement slab, and the windows and doors are secure. But it seems predators sometimes do get inside. I'm wondering how.

And the run has six foot posts and 2" x 4" welded fencing with affordable black deer netting top to bottom and 1/2" hardware cloth from the ground up to 36". We need to address the overhead access.

But let's assume we've covered the overhead with poultry netting. What are examples of how a predator could still get inside and harm our chickens? We buried hardware cloth about 8" to 10" (too difficult to dig down further). I'm also working on burying a flat sheet of hardware cloth all around the fencing. The door to the yard has two latches with locking carabiners.

I'm just wondering, though, what raccoons and other clever creatures do to get inside. It seems like it happens to everyone rural at some point, despite a great setup. I would find it helpful knowing examples of how this is happening, even if your setup is different or could be improved.

I guess what I'd love is to collect a list of scenarios you've actually experienced to help inform people as to how they get inside.

Thanks!

 

[Ridgerunner]

It’s more challenging to make your run predator-proof than your coop, especially if your run is decent size. If you free range you are always at risk. But your question is how do critters get inside.

Some critters like weasels, rats, and snakes need very tiny openings to get through. That could be straight through your fence if the mesh openings are big enough. I had a snake big enough to eat a baby chick go through 1” hardware cloth. Gates, doors, windows, or external nest boxes are sometimes weak areas. You can have gaps at corners where walls meet, walls and floor meet, or the walls and ceiling meet. Your coop is on a concrete slab so that stops mice from tunneling in which provides a path for snakes or weasels. They can still do that in your run. If something gets in your run and the pop door is open they have easy access to your coop.

It’s amazing how easy it is for even larger critters like raccoons or bigger to squeeze through an opening under your fence. Uneven ground makes that even easier unless you take specific steps to fix it. Chickens like to scratch, they can create openings under a fence just from that. If your run is on a slope erosion may create an opening. I once saw a possum go under a fence through a gap that was hardly there. He didn’t even slow down. I now use an apron to prevent that.

A tremendous number of predators can climb or just jump a pretty high fence. If your run is fairly narrow it’s not that hard to cover it, but depending where you are you may have to consider snow or ice load and make it strong. If you are in a wooded area leaves might pile up on it. They can get heavy when wet. If you have trees inside and outside the run with interlocking branches that might provide a path for a critter to get in and out over your fence, even if the fence is electric.

Even if you can’t cover the run you still have options. A properly installed electric fence or electric netting will stop practically any ground based predator. Birds of prey are still a danger. One trick that can help is to angle the top of your fence out. Install a section at the top that bends out at a 45 degree angle or flatter so the critter has to hang upside down to crawl over it. That will stop a lot of critters. Another trick is to install some free standing wire at the top of your fence. Say you take a five feet wide piece of fairly stiff wire like 2” x 4” welded wire and attach that to the top of your fence about 2’ from the bottom of the 2x4 wire. Then fasten the bottom of that 2x4 wire to your fence a couple of feet down. You should have 3’ of that wire standing up because of its stiffness. If something tries to climb it the wire bends back, making it practically impossible for a critter of any size to climb in. You have to watch your corners and if you don’t have all one piece you need to overlap where it splices together but it can be pretty effective.

If you have a big run and are worried about birds of prey deer or bird netting is usually not that hard to install but I’d want it high enough I could walk under it even when it sags. Don’t forget snow, ice, or leaf loads.

Some critters, like a large raccoon or a big dog, can tear some wire if they can get a grip on it. The smaller the gauge (heavier wire) and the smaller the holes the harder it is for them to tear it. Chicken wire is usually fairly light weight and typically has larger holes. It provides protection against many critters but it can be torn. It surprises a lot of people but there are photos on this forum where lighter hardware cloth has been torn by critters too. The heavier the wire and the smaller the holes the more protection it gives you and the more it costs. A fairly effective strategy is to use a heavy wire like 2x4 welded wire for strength and overlap it with smaller mesh wire to stop smaller critters from going through.

Your connections are very important and often your weakest point. What you attach the wire to and how you attach it are important. If I’m using staples to attach wire I don’t even consider those ¾” poultry staples, they pull out way too easily. I use the 1-1/4” fencing staples. What you hammer those into has to be substantial. If it vibrates when you hit the staple it’s extremely hard to hammer in and it might split the wood so it also pulls out easily.

When I attach wire mesh to a flat wooden surface I use screws and furring strips. A lot of people use screws and fender washers to attach hardware cloth and that works pretty well. It leaves the sharp edge exposed though which can snag your clothes or skin, but also might give a critter something to grab hold of and pull. I take a ¾” thick furring strip and drill pilot holes to make starting the screw easier and keep the wood from splitting. When I attach it those screws go through holes in the wire mesh. If the wood is soft I use fender washers with the screws to keep the screw head from sinking through or keep the wood from splitting when I tighten them up. By clamping that wood on tightly the fence isn’t going anywhere and the sharp edges are covered.

Another potential point of weakness is your hardware. Don’t use those tiny weak cabinet hinges, get something substantial and attach them well. Your hasps and locks also need to be robust.

Your most secure lock is a padlock, either keyed or combination, but those can be a pain if you enter very often. Raccoons can be pretty clever at opening other types of locks. I use spring loaded carabiners, they have worked so far. But I realize some day a raccoon may figure it out.

There are ways to build a really secure coop and even run but it can get quite expensive and may take a lot of effort. Zoos build enclosures to keep some pretty savvy capable critters in, you can build to keep critters out.

 

[Howard E]

How they get inside? In my case, nothing larger than a mouse ever has. So this is what I did to keep the larger stuff out.

Starts with a tight coop. In my case, a Woods style coop:



Some key features. Note the design incorporates both run and house into one tight structure. Flexible as to ventilation, with two sets of windows that open or close. A Woods coop is essentially a covered run enclosed on three sides. The fourth side, which faces south into the Winter sun, is covered with 1/2" x 1" 16 gauge welded wire. Tough stuff. The rest is 5/8" T111 plywood siding. Only two openings at ground level and those are securely latched. Door is tight. No other way in. This coop is portable, meaning built on two heavy runners. To keep diggers out, there is a 2' wide apron of 1" x 2" welded wire. Shown as installed, before I put the pins in to hold the apron down tight. Within a week or so, grass grew up and covered it and I now mow over it. But still there to keep diggers out. Now and then I see places where it looks like they tried, but never get in.

When varmints show up, and they do, normally, they stand at the opening and stare in:



But no joy. Can't dig in, can't break in and can't reach in, so tough luck to them.

That protects the birds during the day, or during several days in a row if I'm not around to let them out. They have food, water and room to play inside the coop. Then, during the day, they are contained within, and protected by, a 4 wire electric fence.


It may not look effective, but it is. Brutally hot and painful to anything who might want to test it.

This flock is going on 18 months and no losses to date from any predators......and they are around. Foxes, coyotes, possums, skunks, dogs and cats and who knows what else.

It can be done.

 

[Ridgerunner]

With the electric fences did you have it on a lower voltage so that the chickens could learn not to touch then turn it up?

No, you want it to bite. I don't know what voltage Howard uses but my electric netting is over 7,000 volts. Amperage is really low but the voltage will bite. What makes it a lot safer is that it is not a steady current, it pulses. Mine sends a very short electric pulse about 50 times a minute. Since it pulses it enables whatever touches it to turn loose so it doesn't get injured. I've had chickens touch mine with their combs or wattles. They just jump back, squawk, and go about their business.

If something gets tangled up in it so they can't turn loose it can injure or kill. I've had that happen with snapping turtles, a snake, and a coupe of frogs. The snake and frogs died but when I released them the turtles walked away. My chickens have never been injured but they do learn to not touch it.

 

[azygous]

If you have coyotes, you probably also have bobcats. Coyotes can climb and bobcats are even better at it, so poultry netting is a joke to both these species.

A solid cover is much better, and really not that expensive if you use a light weight frame of 2x 4s and 1x 2s with corrugated fiberglass panels over the top. The installation goes very quickly and easily.

But for supreme protection against bobcats, coyotes, foxes, raccoons, and even bears, I recommend hot wire around coop and run.

 

[Birdsong 82]

Definitely some kind of overhead coverage. Instead of staples or regular nails try u nails and putting them in at an angle. I have pieces of wood that still have you nails in them because I couldn't get them out. It's almost impossible to get those out. That's what I used after I lost two to a raccoon

 

[Howard E]

One more thing with hot wire fences. I think it is a good idea to mow up one side and down the other to maintain a clear adjacent section. This keeps tall weeds and brush away from the fence (to prevent shorts) but also creates a boundary these critters recognize. A bit like a yellow caution light. Most all of them also do not like to be out in the open, so won't be lurking right next to the fence. Birds on one side and varmints on the other in such close proximity would be inviting an attack. But move them back a bit and varmints who might be thinking of going for the birds are still in sneaky stealth mode when they encounter the fence. Moving slow and cautions. Ouch.

 

[Sunshine Flock]

Good information, thank you.

We are attaching some welded wire to 4x4 redwood posts today. The 3/4" U shaped staples do seem easy to pull out. But as you mentioned, the post vibrates when hit with a hammer, so hammering in 1 1/4" staples isn't going to go well.

I never thought I'd consider poultry netting for the top, but we're strapped financially and we're also unsure of how to span the chicken run with 2x4s. We also have two trees inside the run, which couldn't be avoided. They're sizable oaks.

If I can figure out how to extend a plywood covering out from the roof for rain protection, that will help, and from there I'll see if I can add some fiberglass panels as mentioned. It's just all so costly, and yet the ultimate cost is losing our flock.

 

[Howard E]

If you need to secure wire, really secure it, don't use the 3/4" staples. Use the real deal wire fence staples:



If need be, buck up behind them when nailing. Use a heavy hammer, or something like a splitting wedge behind the wood. And a real hammer to drive them. 16 oz to 20 oz framing hammer vs. a tack hammer.

 

[Howard E]

How big is that electric run you have and may I ask about how much $$$ it cost?

The yard area within this fence is now about an 1/4 acre or around 100 feet square.

So to make this fence requires approximately the following materials:

Fence Charger: This is a ParMak 12 volt fencer.......cost was about $125
12 volt battery and box (about $100 combined)
Four Steel posts for the corners. $10
Two bags of donut insulators for the corners: $15
One 1/4 mile roll of 19 gauge aluminum fencing wire: $20
About 1 white step in post every 20 to 25 linear feet......so about 20 of those: $60
4 to 8 wire tensioners: $25

All total, about $350 invested in this fence. Or about 90 cents a linear foot. That compares to poultry netting, which also costs about $1 a linear foot for the netting alone, plus charger and battery and any corner bracing to hold it up.

BUT, double the line runs to 200 feet per leg and the area goes up to nearly a full acre, or 4X the area. (an interesting play on chicken math). Additional cost is only more wire and step in posts. So for another $80 to $100 (about 20 to 25 cents per foot.....now $450), you have a full acre or 4X as much area as before. Cost is now about 50 cents a linear foot, or about half that for just the netting alone, plus the charger to power it.

This type of fence would be easy to expand to even larger areas. Double the run lengths to 400 feet per leg and now you have 3.5 to 4 acres. That is a large chicken yard.