Favorite True Breeding Meat Birds or First Generation Crosses

[Starbawk]

Hi there, I raise Cornish cross meat birds regularly for home consumption and sell a few to offset costs. I'm interested to know others' experiences with raising either true-breeding meat birds or first generation crosses, as I'm interested in potentially experimenting with hatching and raising my own meat birds. I do understand that anything but a CX will be a significant increase in cost in terms of feed conversion ratio, time equipment is tied up (time to slaughter), bedding, etc. I'd like to do some calculations to see if the increase in cost would be doable for me. It would be my hope to be able to offset some of this difference by lower cost-per-chick hatching and raising myself (electricity cost, cost to keep the breeding stock, etc) and by possibly selling day-old chicks and/or hatching eggs. Please share any experiences you've had with your own first generation crosses or pure-bred "dual purpose" breeds for meat. I'd like to know:

a) Cost in feed to keep each adult bird per year (or week or whatever, I can math)
b) Calculated FCR for the offspring raised to slaughter (or how much feed you went through per however many birds)
c) Time to slaughter and average carcass weight at slaughter
d) Any notes on taste, type of meat (dark vs. light), toughness in cooking, etc.

Related/unrelated: I already have plans for olive eggers made from black copper marans roo to crested cream legbar hens. Anyone happen to know the average FCR for that specific mix?

 

[Molpet]

A guy did a study of a few heritage hatchery
https://projects.sare.org/project-reports/fnc12-866/

 

[Thepoopsmiths]

Hello,
I read that article and while it was interesting I do find it suspect. First, it demonstrates poor application of the scientific process, starting from chick acquisition, lack of feed program or acknowledgement of differing feed needs and never gaining a good control of the environmental influences.
It is interesting and has valuable info and at the same time its info is anecdotal at best. The writer of that study actually suggests butchering at 16 weeks for the Standard Bred chickens.
I would like to have the info that the OP asked for but with standard bred and/or true breeding type chickens.

Bump

 

[CNJ]

Please share any experiences you've had with your own first generation crosses or pure-bred "dual purpose" breeds for meat. I'd like to know:

I read an article about using A/B to C/D heritage birds to create a fast growing meat bird. I tried this and it did not work. I concluded that the fast growing Cornish Cross is breed specific, so I recently bred a Breese Rooster/Cornish X hen for A/B and a Dark Cornish Rooster/Cornish X hen for C/D. The next step is to breed the A/B line to the C/D line to see what happens. The A/B line is going on 3 months on 2/08/22 and the C/D line is a about month behind. The body shape of the A/B line is round and low to the ground like the Cornish X, but they did not grow as fast. I will weigh them on 2/08/22. They should dress around 4 to 5 lbs in 3 month since they got that look. Its interesting to note that some of the A/B birds have blue legs.

I also have another experiment going on with a Standard Dark Cornish rooster/White Plymouth Rock hen for A/B and a Standard Dark Cornish rooster/White Breese hen for B/C. However, the Standard Dark Cornish rooster/White Plymouth Rock hen line is 3 months ahead of the Standard Dark Cornish/White Breese hen line, so its going to be a while.

I am also working on turning my Standard Dark Cornish line white. I got some white looking chicks with pea comb in a recent hatch. I'll be pairing them with my Standard A/B cross, my two roosters from that hatch are mostly white with scattered red feathers and they both have pea comb. I could line breed the white ones, but I don't like the idea of pairing brother and sister together.

 

[Lauravonsmurf]

Well I have two Naked Neck girls, they seem to have grown well… but it is not like I was trying to collect data. I need to invest in a scale to weight live birds… I am just eye balling their growth and development versus the other breeds we have.

We put in an order of chicks (sampling really) of breeds we are curious about. I am hoping work on crossing the NN and breeding them larger.

We ordered Saipan, New Jersey Giants, Buckeyes, Egyptian Fayoumi and RI Whites. We will probably add a few other easy to get at the feed store breeds. The Buckeyes look to be a heavier breed than the RIR so I wanted to check them out. The RI Whites I have never seen but photos so I would like to check them out as a dual purpose. I am hoping we get one Saipan cockerel to use in cross breeding to the NNs for sure.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Hello,
I read that article and while it was interesting I do find it suspect. First, it demonstrates poor application of the scientific process, starting from chick acquisition, lack of feed program or acknowledgement of differing feed needs and never gaining a good control of the environmental influences.
It is interesting and has valuable info and at the same time its info is anecdotal at best. The writer of that study actually suggests butchering at 16 weeks for the Standard Bred chickens.
I would like to have the info that the OP asked for but with standard bred and/or true breeding type chickens.

Bump

I've read the same article, and while we all understand its limitations (which are legion), it remains one of the best articles out there, owing to the poor quality and tiny sample sizes of every other article out there. I've looked.

The CX effectively redefined what it means to be a "meat bird". Everything else is, at best, a DP that leans meat-y, instead of egg-y.

My own culling project of mutts has some data surrounding it, but nothing on an individual bird basis, some big data problems (since I have ducks), plus a mix of ages. Even so, we can do some crude, crude math. With an average of 60 birds, and an average of 12# feed per day (seasonally varies), that's .2# per bird/day. (mine free range). Currently, feed costs me $0.28/lb or just under (I've paid under $0.24, but not in the last 6 months). Call it $0.40 a week per bird.

My males are being culled at week 18 +/- (most earlier, some later) and the weights are all over the place, but 2.75# - 3.5# is typical recent carcass yield (meaning 2 - 2.5# boneless skinless) $7.20/3# is $2.4/lb bone in, closer to $3.50/lb boneless. And of course the hens (whom I use as layers) are lighter, 3.25-4# live weight at the age, and thus about 30% more expensive per pound.

The meat is much more flavorful, much greater texture (you aren't frying, and mostly can't bake or broil), and has a much higher ratio of dark/light than a CX.

In short, the math doesn't work - even adding in the value of sold shell eggs (which helps a lot). **IF** you can sell hatching eggs, or hatchlings, routinely and in volume, the economics work much better - but my (limited) experience is that there is little value in "mutts" unless your Crosses have developed a local reputation.

Good luck!

 

[JacinLarkwell]

I like processing NNs because when you hand pluck like i do, having fewer arm and leg pit feathers really helps

 

[Ridgerunner]

It is interesting and has valuable info and at the same time its info is anecdotal at best. The writer of that study actually suggests butchering at 16 weeks for the Standard Bred chickens.
I would like to have the info that the OP asked for but with standard bred and/or true breeding type chickens.

I think anecdotal is the best you will ever get for this type of thing. It's been a while since I read that study in detail but there are some very basic flaws in that type of study. I think they did a decent job all things considered.

One of the basic flaws is that not every chicken of a certain breed is even close to the same. Depending on the selection criteria and how good they are, different people select which chickens get to breed for each flock. Whatever that breed is some people might select more for egg laying qualities, others for meat. Maybe they are selecting for what the judge sees if they are breeding for show. Maybe egg shell color is an important criteria. You will get different chickens although they are sold as the same breed.

They mentioned those chicks came from Cackle Hatchery. I like Cackle, it's one of the hatcheries we often use. If you go the same breed from any of the other hatcheries we typically use you'd probably get different results. If you got your chicks from someone breeding for show you'd get different results. To me, the thought that every chicken of a certain breed will give you the same result is greatly flawed but pretty common on this forum.

What constitutes a good meat bird for you. Is it just weight of meat? Is size the only criteria? Does the proportion of light versus dark meat matter? At what age do you butcher, which has an effect on how you cook them and can affect texture and flavor. Some chickens are early maturing, others late maturing. This is somewhat by breed but even chickens of the same breed and in the same flock can have widely different maturity dates. How important to you is the appearance of the carcass? Skin color might be important, might not. If you pluck instead of skin a white or buff feathered bird will give you a prettier carcass than a black or dark red bird because of the pin feathers. The list of out personal preferences as to what makes a good meat bird go on and on.

We all feed them differently and manage them differently. This study tried to feed and manage them consistently but that won't be how you feed and manage them. Don't expect to get the same results.

I encourage you to read on here to see what others have tried and the results they get. See what is important to different people. Use that to select which you want to try. But I strongly encourage you to try a few different breeds from whatever source you get them and do your own comparison. See what works best for you in your unique circumstances and methods. That's what is important, what works for you not what works for me.

Good luck!

 

[Egghead_Jr]

There is a more comprehensive and scientific agricultural study done decades ago. The results are very similar to the above study. It included Cornish Cross for comparison though the meat birds were butchered young and as with the above study the dual purpose birds were let to grow until 18 weeks.

There are two major issues with both studies. First and foremost both used hatchery stock birds. Second both allow the birds to age far past what traditional butcher ages were when dual purpose birds were used in the meat industry.

Though no dual purpose bird will ever compete with the efficiency (feed to meat conversion) of a Cornish X the disparity of these studies is misleading. If actual heritage stock is used and slaughter at 12 weeks the data would be more respectable.

I've grown heritage cockerels that weigh well over 4lbs live weight at 12 weeks. That's easily 3lbs carcass and the feed to achieve it is half what it would take raising to 18+ weeks. I'm saying the wrong stock is used, the idea of growing dual purpose birds to roasting age is inefficient and data should only be on cockerels not pullets. Pullets of dual purpose birds are not typically grown for food, they are grown to be layers or sold as point of lay birds.

Will a quality breeder stock "heritage" cockerel come close to conversion rates of Cornish X with the above conditions? Absolutely not. But it's not nearly as bad as the fundamentally flawed studies suggest. When I butchered I'd get larger carcass with half the feed then either of those studies. I'm not a genius, I just have breeder stock birds and would slaughter most of the k's at 12 weeks.

I should add the caveat that the heavy k's at 12 weeks were the ones allowed to grow out to evaluate for breeders. The ones butchered back then were 2.5-2.75 lbs clean carcass at 12 weeks. But obviously you get more consistent larger birds with that criteria for first harvest.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

If people remind me this coming July I'll get you weights of cockerels at 11, 12 and 13 weeks of age. No longer keep the Penciled Plymouth Rocks but the BLR Wyandotte seem to fill in fast enough. The contrast of breeder stock to hatchery stock should be eye opening to many here.