Feeder goldfish from the State Fair

[chicks n roses]

i would build a pond!! i can help with instructions if u go that route .it will survive winters zone six and up as long as pond does not freeze solid.if you do not overstock you wontneed a pump or filter it becomes its own little bio diverse world frogs.dragonflies.birds.i have two foot koi and 14" goldfish for tears in my 1000 gl pumpless pond.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Well I'm only getting one or two fish and I have a 20 gallon tank I think.

Gold fish can get their air at the surface. And they can live without any type of pump. But to keep your tank cleaner a back filter is best. If the water gets a little green, that's actually ok because life is thriving. But it isn't pretty to look at. I wouldn't put many more goldfish than that. When they are small no worries. But 10 gal per 1 goldfish is a good number. The important thing is keeping the ammonia level down. which is easier to do with live plants. Just can't keep them buried with the g fish diggin in the rocks all the time.

 

[MeepBeep]

Whether or not the fish need an air pump has to do with how many fish are in the tank and if there is enough oxygen available for the number of fish.  It has nothing whatever to do with what kind of fish they are.  I would get a pump.  Better to be safe than sorry.

This is the second biggest myth next to fish growing size relevant to tank size...

The air pump itself puts nearly no 'oxygen' into the water, it's primary purpose is to agitate the surface, break the surface tension of the water as well as 'stiring' the water to increase the natural gas exchanges on the surface... The reason the air itself puts no O2 into the water is that until the CO2 (and other gases) are released from the water there is no where for new O2 to go... You can do the same thing with a wave maker, a fan, a power head, a hang on back filter or you can simply increase the natural surface area (bigger tank) until it's sufficient for the amount of fish in tank...

And although some fish will 'gulp' for air, this is not an ideal solution as it shows the fish is literally suffocating under water, you can equate this to the effect humans have at high altitudes where oxygen is not sufficient, it's simply not a healthy thing to have to gasp for air to breath...

 
They won't grow that big in a tank. The size of their enclosure governs the growth.

Sorry, I didn't read the whole thread.... 

But this is one of the biggest myths EVER! That's like saying a cow will only grow as big as it's pen.

They can grow up to a foot long yes! And they are a highly invasive, hardy and prolific species. Please do not flush them or release them alive. They do survive.

How big it gets will depend on many factors including health, nutrition, and genetics. But they will grow large and can live easily 10 years.

This is very true, the reason fish in small tanks don't grow fast or large is because they are living in an environment that stunts their growth and this is not related to the size of the tank but the bad quality of the water and likely improper feeding practices... If you were to maintain high water quality and feed a fish properly it will grow just as fast and get just as big in any size tank...

If the water gets a little green, that's actually ok because life is thriving.

I beg to differ, as it's not that black and white... Algae needs two things to grow, nutrients and light... That said if you are feeding your fish the proper amount with no waste, your bio filtration is functioning as it should, and your tank is not overstocked there won't be any nutrients left for algae to eat meaning no algae... And although you can use an algae scrubber to aid in bio filtration, or as a decoration deliberately and on purpose, unwanted algae growth in a tank is almost always an indicator of insufficient bio filtration, over feeding or an over stocked tank none of which are indicators of a healthy tank in the end...

 

[EggSighted4Life]

@MeepBeep Some nicely detailed information there. Thank you for expanding and clarifying.

Yes, your statement about algae is true. It's been a very long time since I have raised fish. Sometimes the details fade.

Also I would say that air pumps are just that, pumping air. Not oxygen.

 

[MeepBeep]

Also I would say that air pumps are just that, pumping air. Not oxygen. 

Well there is oxygen in the air, the problem is that until the excess CO2 that more readily and easily dissolves into water is released from the water there is no room to dissolve any other gases like O2... So even pumping in pure oxygen would only have a marginal effect, you need to release the CO2 first and this happens at the surface as the air and water concentrations of several gasses normalize/equalize allowing some CO2 to escape and some O2 to enter to create a balance...

In the end like with many things (including chickens) we tend to focus on rules, procedures and shortcuts but seem to forget the science that dictates why those rules, procedures and shortcuts actually work or how they work

Also a lot and I mean a lot of new science and tech has happened in regards to aquariums in the last 30-40 years... Especially in the area of filtration, that said a lot of what was common practice 20 or more years ago by nearly every aquarium hobbyist is now frowned upon or discouraged by many... One glaring example is under gravel filters, they were the standard and everyone used them as a matter of course, now very few experienced hobbyist use them and many will condemn their use to no end, that isn't to say they didn't and don't work but they have their limits and drawbacks with many new tech and methods being superior, sometimes way superior... There has been a shift in filters with wet/dry trickle filter systems, sumps, canister filters or moving/fluidized bed filters (the king of the hill) being the goto for many hobbyist, with hang on back filters still being used by many home hobbyist due to their easy of setup and low cost...

When I got back into the fish hobby about 10 years back and started to read and participate in online fish keeping forums, I realized quite fast that it was time I pretty much forget everything I thought I knew was the 'right way' and forget what I used to do as it was time to reboot back to a slightly experienced newbie level and learn the current trends...

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Busted!

I used to use the under gravel and said in a previous post " not recommended"!

I really enjoy the science of it, that you are bringing back in. If you understand the how and the why, you can figure other things out. And then the pieces of the puzzle fall into place!

 

[MeepBeep]

 Busted!     I used to use the under gravel and said in a previous post " not recommended"!   

Even I used them, as did pretty much everyone 20+ years ago, as long as they are maintained properly they do an OK job of filtering as evidenced by the fact they served (and still serve) many people well... It's just one of those things, tech advances ,knowledge is gained and things change with time...

 

[cassie]

@MeepBeep Some nicely detailed information there. Thank you for expanding and clarifying.

Yes, your statement about algae is true. It's been a very long time since I have raised fish. Sometimes the details fade.

Also I would say that air pumps are just that, pumping air. Not oxygen.

Air is 20% oxygen.

 

[Jenna14Chicken]

Ok got. A little fishy today and I can't find the aquarium. So for now we have it in a vase and we plan on getting a fish bowl for it. Will it be ok in a fish bowl with some bed rocks or something and maybe a little hut thing?

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Even I used them, as did pretty much everyone 20+ years ago, as long as they are maintained properly they do an OK job of filtering as evidenced by the fact they served (and still serve) many people well... It's just one of those things, tech advances ,knowledge is gained and things change with time...

Now you're just making me feel old!

Air is 20% oxygen.

I was wondering that, although I think it could depend on where you live.... In the central San Joaquin Valley in Ca,... You think that's air your breathing?! And now I live on the redwood coast, covered in green. So I wonder how it relates... Not to be argumentative, but inquisitive? Of course I guess the difference in elevation totally makes a difference and therefor your location.

Ok got. A little fishy today and I can't find the aquarium. So for now we have it in a vase and we plan on getting a fish bowl for it. Will it be ok in a fish bowl with some bed rocks or something and maybe a little hut thing?

Hi.

Your fish will only be OK in a bowl for a very brief amount of time. It will quickly out grow it. It will not be a happy existence!