Flystrike and vent problem (Graphic photos)

[Folly's place]

Many veterinarians in small animal and/ or 'pet bird' avian practice aren't up to date on the totally different concern and regulations affecting livestock species, as in poultry.
Mary

 

[casportpony]

Baytril is a very nice drug, but it's not approved for any livestock species, trying to keep this class of drugs (fluoroquinolones) useful for fighting human infections.

In the US it *is* approved and labeled for use in beef cattle, dairy cattle, and swine. Technically, this is one of the drugs that is not supposed to be used in poultry, though many still people still use it.

"
RESIDUE WARNINGS:
Cattle: Animals intended for human consumption must not be slaughtered within 28 days from the last treatment. This product is not approved for female dairy cattle 20 months of age or older, including dry dairy cows. Use in these cattle may cause drug residues in milk and/or in calves born to these cows. A withdrawal period has not been established for this product in pre-ruminating calves. Do not use in calves to be processed for veal. Swine: Animals intended for human consumption must not be slaughtered within 5 days of receiving a single-injection dose. "
https://www.drugs.com/vet/baytril-100-enrofloxacin-100-mg-ml-antimicrobial-injectable-solution.html

 

[Folly's place]

I stand corrected. Notice that milk cows and poultry are excluded.
Mary

 

[Folly's place]

The FARAD website lists all fluoroquinolones as off limits for livestock in the USA. This isn't what Bayer is saying; there's a discrepancy here. I wonder who's most up to date?
And to be crude, who's selling the drug?
Mary
Can't call anyone until Monday...

 

[casportpony]

The FARAD website lists all fluoroquinolones as off limits for livestock in the USA.

There must be an error on the webpage you're looking at, because this shows it as being approved for cattle, dairy cattle, and swine.
http://www.farad.org/vetgram/nonlactating.asp

This isn't what Bayer is saying; there's a discrepancy here. I wonder who's most up to date?

Valley Vet sells two types for cattle, beef and swine, so I suspect that someone at FARAD needs to update the webpage you're looking at.

And to be crude, who's selling the drug?

Lots of places sell it.

 

[Jhs51684]

Okay, this is a lot to take in. I was feeling better about her condition, and the feedback is very constructive and I appreciate it. However, now I'm thinking maybe the optimism is premature. So she seems to be passing what looks like a deflated shell, but in very small pieces only. So I'm not 100% certain it's shell membrane. So after all the feedback I have a whole new round of questions.

1.) If I give her antibiotics, I can no longer eat her eggs (assuming a positive outcome)? Therefore, I wouldn't be able to reintegrate her into the flock (not knowing which eggs would be hers)?
2.) Does she look egg bound to you guys? Does being egg bound go hand in hand with passing shell membrane? Is she swollen on her backside? I can't even decide at this point, I've been looking and analyzing her so much that it's hard to remember what's normal.
3.) Are all of these conditions related and/or lead to one another? (Flystrike > Egg bound > Passing shell membrane)?

4.) Lastly, am I putting too much credence into her behavior? She is acting almost completely normal at this point. She's eating a bit less than normal but she has gained some weight back and is moving around quite a bit. She has also began resisting as I lower her into her soaking water, as where earlier in the week she was completely non-resistant to any contact.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I apologize for the thread getting sidetracked.
Can you get some photos of what she is passing? (the membrane?)
Is she pooping? what's that like?

Yes. I do think she looks bloated/swollen or full in the abdomen. Does it feel like it's fluid or hard?

For the question about the antibiotics - re-read the debate. A lot depends on which antibiotic you use. She may or may not lay normal eggs again, time will tell. Do some research on your own too.

Is the condition related to the FlyStrike. Yes and No. Her condition (whatever is going on with her), possibly poop and/or egg discharge, a tiny wound, etc. attracted flies to lay eggs. I hot weather maggots can hatch around 24hrs or so, so it doesn't take very long at all for it to get out of hand.

 

[casportpony]

Okay, this is a lot to take in.

Sorry to go off on the Baytril tangent.

1.) If I give her antibiotics, I can no longer eat her eggs (assuming a positive outcome)? Therefore, I wouldn't be able to reintegrate her into the flock (not knowing which eggs would be hers)?

It depends on how you feel about antibiotics.

2.) Does she look egg bound to you guys? Does being egg bound go hand in hand with passing shell membrane?

She does not look egg bound, but the color of that thing you pulled out of her vent make me think she might have a reproductive tract infection. Have you inserted your finger to check for more bits of stuff and/or an egg?

Is she swollen on her backside? I can't even decide at this point,

She does look swollen to me.

3.) Are all of these conditions related and/or lead to one another? (Flystrike > Egg bound > Passing shell membrane)?

An infection and that thing you removed could cause poop build-up which can lead to flystrike.

4.) Lastly, am I putting too much credence into her behavior? She is acting almost completely normal at this point. She's eating a bit less than normal but she has gained some weight back and is moving around quite a bit. She has also began resisting as I lower her into her soaking water, as where earlier in the week she was completely non-resistant to any contact.

Sometimes they will feel really sick while trying to pass membranes, so now that it's out that could explain why she is feeling better.

 

[Eggcessive]

Amoxicillin was one of the two antibiotics recommended. Using it will not prevent you from using eggs again. I would use a withdrawal time around 14 days. Baytril is better in that it can treat gram negative bacteria, such as E.coli. Baytril is banned in chickens and for vets to prescribe for chickens, but some still do for pet chickens. Many use the eggs with a conservative egg withdrawal time, such as a month. I have never used Baytril or amoxicillin in my chickens, but they can help with reproductive infections, and infection from flystrike. If you saw a vet, more than likely, you would be sent home with an antibiotic and anti-inflammatory.

Yes, it appears that your hens bottom is enlarged possibly from internal laying or ascites. The droppings on her behind look to have some egg matter mixed in. Most of us have had internal layers or hens with egg yolk peritonitis over the years. How to handle those symptoms is up to you. You can feed her, and make her comfortable until she needs to be put down. Consider antibiotics for both the flystrike and the burst egg. Many don’t use them, preferring not to contribute to the antibiotic resistance problem. It is up to you.

 

[Jhs51684]

I apologize for the thread getting sidetracked.
Can you get some photos of what she is passing? (the membrane?)
Is she pooping? what's that like?

Yes. I do think she looks bloated/swollen or full in the abdomen. Does it feel like it's fluid or hard?

For the question about the antibiotics - re-read the debate. A lot depends on which antibiotic you use. She may or may not lay normal eggs again, time will tell. Do some research on your own too.

Is the condition related to the FlyStrike. Yes and No. Her condition (whatever is going on with her), possibly poop and/or egg discharge, a tiny wound, etc. attracted flies to lay eggs. I hot weather maggots can hatch around 24hrs or so, so it doesn't take very long at all for it to get out of hand.
View attachment 1850901

I will make sure to hold onto and take a picture of it the next time it looks like something she may be passing. Her abdomen has give to it, but I don't think it's overly squishy/liquid filled. She has been pooping. It is greenish more so than black (could this be due to the yellowish electrolyte powder I have in her water?). It is not overly runny. I apologize for the non committal answers, but nothing seems to be very obvious with this whole ordeal (other than the flystrike). Here are some more pictures (the poop has a bit of bedding stuck to it, not what she's passing).

I really can't thank you enough for the quick responses and the genuine concern. I really hope to learn some things through this ordeal and pay it forward.