Freedom Ranger Vs. Heritage Breeds

[Dave C]

I'm culling out this years second generation Sasso Roosters tomorrow, so will let you know there weights and compare them with last years to see if the whole project has been worth it.

 

[Dave C]

Dispatched the cockerels yesterday, went ok not a job I enjoyed but its what I signed up for when I wanted better quality meat which has lived a free range life.

I'm very pleased with the second generation Sasso types, weights ranged from 2.2kg - 2.66kg dressed at 15 weeks old.
On par with last years bought in birds.

So 1 year on and I would say it was a worthwhile project.
Fingers crossed they continue to breed true.

The Sasso x Marans were a different shaped bird altogether.
Lowest dressed out at 1.7kg, largest at 1.96kg.
They would of been better in another month or so but for 15 weeks they had as much meat yield as a 24 week Sussex in my opinion.

So the verdict is still out on them.
What you all think?

 

[GreatBreeder]

I'd say that the Sasso x Marans might not be the best if they were comparable to sussex and a lot lighter than the regular Sasso. If the Sussex were comparable without crossing, perhaps Sasso x Sussex would be better. Again, if the cross was not as good as the regular Sasso, then it's probably best to keep do another cross.

 

[Omega Blue Farms]

I think you should be very pleased, both the second generations and heritage crosses produced very useable high quality meat in 15 weeks. Not too many backyarders could hatch their own and get those kinds of results a few years ago.

Far too often, people look at these types of birds and compare the results to cornish crosses which makes absolutely no sense to me. Other than food conversion and cooking ease, the cornish cross is a subpar chicken in every way. They are rubbish and those who covet quality chicken need to stop thinking of the cornish cross as the pinnacle of chicken.

In my opinion, the heritage chicken is the chicken to compare to because it has the best flavour and is best able to embrace chicken behaviour. This is important if animal welfare and healthy food is a concern. The Sasso types and Sasso crosses have all the benefits of a heritage type bird but can be harvested in a fraction of the time, making a more tender product, and with a superior feed conversion. Total win in my books.

 

[GreatBreeder]

I think you should be very pleased, both the second generations and heritage crosses produced very useable high quality meat in 15 weeks. Not too many backyarders could hatch their own and get those kinds of results a few years ago.

Far too often, people look at these types of birds and compare the results to cornish crosses which makes absolutely no sense to me. Other than food conversion and cooking ease, the cornish cross is a subpar chicken in every way. They are rubbish and those who covet quality chicken need to stop thinking of the cornish cross as the pinnacle of chicken.

I respect Cornish Cross and think that they are fine, they just need to be raised properly. Free range them, and don't feed them these high protein feeds. Restrict their diet and they will do good. However, I respect your opinion and am not trying to argue, and I agree that they should not be comparing Cornish Cross to rustic crosses and not heritage breeds. Cornish Cross were bred to be fast and efficient, rustic crosses were meant to be slow and rustic. It's like comparing apple to rocks.

 

[Dave C]

I'd say that the Sasso x Marans might not be the best if they were comparable to sussex and a lot lighter than the regular Sasso. If the Sussex were comparable without crossing, perhaps Sasso x Sussex would be better. Again, if the cross was not as good as the regular Sasso, then it's probably best to keep do another cross.

I used the Sussex just as an example as most know the amount of meat typically taken from them.

The Sasso x Marans were culled at 15 weeks, the Sussex I'm comparing it too would be 24 weeks, so I feel the Sasso x Marans is a worth while cross.
Although I think the Sasso crossed with most breeds would be worthwhile.
If I was doing it again I would grow out the Sasso x Marans until about 20 weeks to see what it's full potential would be.

 

[Omega Blue Farms]

I respect Cornish Cross and think that they are fine, they just need to be raised properly. Free range them, and don't feed them these high protein feeds. Restrict their diet and they will do good. However, I respect your opinion and am not trying to argue, and I agree that they should not be comparing Cornish Cross to rustic crosses and not heritage breeds. Cornish Cross were bred to be fast and efficient, rustic crosses were meant to be slow and rustic. It's like comparing apple to rocks.

Maybe compare was the wrong word to use, but I'm not sure what would be a better word. For me it boils down to producing premium chicken meat and figuring out how to produce it in a way that satisfies both my organic and animal welfare ideals. It's my experience that this entails pasturing chicken and not harvesting before 12 weeks. When I look at the cornish Cross, I see a bird poorly adapted to this task. It's skeleton is all wrong, with it's short wide legs and front heavy balance, it's very poorly adapted to pasture but very well adapted to waddling in a warehouse as intended. North American backyard farmers have adapted growing methods to try and squeeze premium meat from these birds, like with the chicken tractor, but really it is like settling for a round peg in a square hole. It just doesn't quite fit. I've slaughtered enough cornish crosses up here in the Pacific Northwest to say that they do not thrive on pasture. Maybe in drier regions, with a more narrow set of environmental factors, but not in those regions that deviate from the ideal. They also are less adapted to soaking up the sun's radiant heat due to the white feather reflecting light energy rather than absorbing it. Unless one does their own processing for their own consumption, 12 week cornish is a bad idea and is not the easiest to market.

The Sasso and Hubbard pastured meat bird breeders built a far superior meatbird skeleton that is well adapted to pasture and longer living. When one is trying to grow organically on pasture, these are the more humane choice because they are best adapted to thrive on pasture. They are better adapted to diverse environments. Their skeleton allows them to actively forage and run. They are better adapted to avoiding predators and getting to shelter when the weather changes. They are better adapted to remaining mobile when getting older. Because of their improved mobility, they can offer labour savings over the chicken tractor approach to growing because instead of having to move the tractor every day and take the birds to new pasture, you just open a door and let them find the new pasture on their own.

We North Amercan farmers have had over 2 generations of the Cornish Cross being the only viable option if one wants to be in the business of selling chicken meat. Because of this, we are often guilty of having tunnel vision and thinking of the Cornish Cross as the pinnacle of chicken meat production and have a tendency to overlook it's major faults. Our knowledge and understanding of chicken husbandry is built around the Cornish cross and therefore it is what we are best adapted to growing. It's only natural that most will have a tendancy to view chicken meat production from the cornish cross perspective. However, in time, we will catch up to the rest of the world and consider chicken meat production through a meat quality and animal welfare lens. When this happens, we will see just how poor the Cornish Cross option is for producing quality meat.

 

[Molpet]

I posted before in another thread.. but incase anyone is interested, heritage birds comparison of weights and food consumption.. your milage may differ.
from: https://projects.sare.org/project-reports/fnc12-866/
DATA
I have included multiple charts with the following data, but here it is in a simple text format. I have ordered data within the following sections based simply on the order of the shelters on pasture, not from highest-to-lowest or lowest-to-highest. This is for ease of comparison.

Total feed consumption per bird, by breed:
– Dominique – 22.808 lb.
– White Plymouth Rock – 24.385 lb.
– Naked Neck – 24.137 lb.
– Silver-Laced Wyandotte – 26.487 lb.
– Speckled Sussex – 20.821 lb.
– New Hampshire Red – 24.302 lb.
– Delaware – 23.110 lb.
– AVERAGE – 23.721 lb.

Average live weight per bird at processing (18 weeks 4 days), by breed:
– Dominique – 4.388 lb.
– White Plymouth Rock – 5.010 lb.
– Naked Neck – 4.815 lb.
– Silver-Laced Wyandotte – 4.686 lb.
– Speckled Sussex – 4.103 lb.
– New Hampshire Red – 5.238 lb.
– Delaware – 4.801 lb.
– AVERAGE – 4.720 lb.

Average dressed weight per bird, by breed:
– Dominique – 2.98 lb.
– White Plymouth Rock – 3.40 lb.
– Naked Neck – 3.38 lb.
– Silver-Laced Wyandotte – 3.17 lb.
– Speckled Sussex – 2.85 lb.
– New Hampshire Red – 3.29 lb.
– Delaware – 3.03 lb.
– AVERAGE – 3.16 lb.

Dressing percentage rate, by breed:
– Dominique – 67.86%
– White Plymouth Rock – 67.84%
– Naked Neck – 70.27%
– Silver-Laced Wyandotte – 67.74%
– Speckled Sussex – 69.52%
– New Hampshire Red – 62.87%
– Delaware – 63.02%
– AVERAGE – 67.02%

Feed efficiency rates based on live weight (lb. feed per lb. gain), by breed:
– Dominique – 5.20
– White Plymouth Rock – 4.87
– Naked Neck – 5.01
– Silver-Laced Wyandotte – 5.64
– Speckled Sussex – 5.08
– New Hampshire Red – 4.64
– Delaware – 4.81
– AVERAGE – 5.02

Feed efficiency rates based on dressed weight (lb. feed per lb. carcass), by breed:
– Dominique – 7.66
– White Plymouth Rock – 7.17
– Naked Neck – 7.13
– Silver-Laced Wyandotte – 8.34
– Speckled Sussex – 7.30
– New Hampshire Red – 7.38
– Delaware – 7.64
– AVERAGE – 7.49

Cost of production per lb. dressed weight, by breed*:
– Dominique – $4.08
– White Plymouth Rock – $3.71
– Naked Neck – $3.73
– Silver-Laced Wyandotte – $4.21
– Speckled Sussex – $4.01
– New Hampshire Red – $3.82
– Delaware – $4.05
– AVERAGE – $3.90
* These cost figures are to be used for reference only, and are not intended to be authoritative or even typical. Clearly one’s own enterprise costs will vary largely depending on a number of factors. Farmers should input their own relevant costs, using the breed-specific data above, to best determine their own potential outcomes. My own production costs are based on the following:
– cost per chick of between $1.34 and $1.45 (depending on breed);
– feed cost to butcher date at $0.365/lb. for bagged non-GMO feed;
– processing equipment rental cost of $75.00 for one day;
– bags, clips, and labels at $0.371 per bird;
– mileage to pick up chicks from the hatchery, pick up feed, and pick up and return processing equipment;
– and approximate shelter depreciation cost of $1.00 per bird

 

[GreatBreeder]

Maybe compare was the wrong word to use, but I'm not sure what would be a better word. For me it boils down to producing premium chicken meat and figuring out how to produce it in a way that satisfies both my organic and animal welfare ideals. It's my experience that this entails pasturing chicken and not harvesting before 12 weeks. When I look at the cornish Cross, I see a bird poorly adapted to this task. It's skeleton is all wrong, with it's short wide legs and front heavy balance, it's very poorly adapted to pasture but very well adapted to waddling in a warehouse as intended. North American backyard farmers have adapted growing methods to try and squeeze premium meat from these birds, like with the chicken tractor, but really it is like settling for a round peg in a square hole. It just doesn't quite fit. I've slaughtered enough cornish crosses up here in the Pacific Northwest to say that they do not thrive on pasture. Maybe in drier regions, with a more narrow set of environmental factors, but not in those regions that deviate from the ideal. They also are less adapted to soaking up the sun's radiant heat due to the white feather reflecting light energy rather than absorbing it. Unless one does their own processing for their own consumption, 12 week cornish is a bad idea and is not the easiest to market.

The Sasso and Hubbard pastured meat bird breeders built a far superior meatbird skeleton that is well adapted to pasture and longer living. When one is trying to grow organically on pasture, these are the more humane choice because they are best adapted to thrive on pasture. They are better adapted to diverse environments. Their skeleton allows them to actively forage and run. They are better adapted to avoiding predators and getting to shelter when the weather changes. They are better adapted to remaining mobile when getting older. Because of their improved mobility, they can offer labour savings over the chicken tractor approach to growing because instead of having to move the tractor every day and take the birds to new pasture, you just open a door and let them find the new pasture on their own.

We North Amercan farmers have had over 2 generations of the Cornish Cross being the only viable option if one wants to be in the business of selling chicken meat. Because of this, we are often guilty of having tunnel vision and thinking of the Cornish Cross as the pinnacle of chicken meat production and have a tendency to overlook it's major faults. Our knowledge and understanding of chicken husbandry is built around the Cornish cross and therefore it is what we are best adapted to growing. It's only natural that most will have a tendancy to view chicken meat production from the cornish cross perspective. However, in time, we will catch up to the rest of the world and consider chicken meat production through a meat quality and animal welfare lens. When this happens, we will see just how poor the Cornish Cross option is for producing quality meat.

I completely understand your point of view, but I'm not going to say one is better than the other. I agree that the rustic crosses produced by Sasso and Hubbard have better movement and frame, and they are better suited for the pasture. The Cornish Cross was bred for the opposite, to deal with cramped conditions and to produce a huge amount of meat in a fast amount of time. Although Cornish Cross were MEANT for this, they CAN be free ranged and do quite well if raised properly. Special needs need to be taken into account though, restricted feed (not high protein), plenty of ranging space, among other things. Here are some accounts

https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/raising-cornish-x-for-meat-–-the-truth.66015/

https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...rnish-x-meaties-tractors-do-not-count.813414/



My conclusion, rustic crosses are more ideal for alternative rearing methods, and Cornish Crosses are more ideal for conventional raising. Cornish Crosses work for ranging, they aren't ideal. I see tons of Cornish Cross vs Freedom Ranger (or other rustic crosses) comparisons, it makes no sense! People get rustic birds to get away from the Cornish Cross and have an ideal pasture bird, so nobody wants to see them being compared to Cornish Crosses. They should compare them to heritage breeds, because they could have used heritage so you want to see how efficient they are compared to them. Protesting and comparing Cornish Crosses and rustic crosses is useless, like rocks and apples, some people want cx, some want rustic.

 

[Dave C]

I think the French Label Rouge style of rearing chickens is the model I would like to follow