German New Hampshire

[gjensen]

Here is a cockeral from last years breedings that I am using over Mom and two Aunts. Just started collecting eggs. I would like to see a more rounded chest on this one but I love his width, open tail and size, he is a big boy for 11 mos. old. He should fill out much more, his Dad took his time.This is one I took to a show months back, his back looked so long then but his tail has come up and I think he has a fairly correct backline now.

Dad/daughter setting/hatchings are finished up for this season. First 15, 6 week old chicks went out to the adult coop last week. 3 more batches in the brooder and 2 more batches in the incubator.

Predator season has started, the peeping of the youngsters in the coop at night always brings them out. Noticed digging around one of the coops yesterday AM and first skunk of the season in the trap this AM. They will tear the youngsters to pieces if they manage to get in to the coop.

Hope everyone is doing well and HAPPY HATCHING

We are going to have to get the tails shortened up. Mine come in late to. Mine lift late also. The cockerel I had in the Avatar ended up with good lift. He was in the 30wk range then.

One of the hang ups is the length of tail. It will require an outcross to accomplish it. There is a gene that dictates this. All of us with this strain has this problem. Some with the American crosses have it, IF they selected for it. Mine came from Joe, so none of mine have it. Selecting too early in the American crosses could hurt us concerning the tails. Mine bow up late.

He is a little short. Though they should be shorter than some breeds, the legs should be centered. There is as much behind as in front. In this case the blown up tails help provide balance, but if we view the bird without it, we see it.

The shafting will give us fits if we are not careful about it.

His color is not as far off as some would say (though it is not quite right) though there should be a more harmonious blend. The wings get us. Our wings are too dark. The especially dark wings contrast too sharply with the hackles and saddles. I have some variation in breast color, and hackles etc. I do not have any variation in the wing color. Good colored wings should be on our minds.

I have heard Walt mention that there is some tolerance concerning shade. I think we could get more room for forgiveness if the wings were not so dark.

This is just an opinion, but I believe our combs are too large in the males, and too small in the females. I think it is hormones affecting to the females. The females should have just a touch more comb, and perhaps lean. The Standard calls for our combs to be medium large. I would call what we have large.

I hope this is not taken as criticism of your nice bird. I have some of the same issues. I had focused on width, depth of keel, and the breast. I was at a point to shift emphasis, but my Catalanas have had me distracted. I hope that I can start tightening up with them by this spring, and give the NHs more attention. I need an outcross for the next two traits to emphasize. The problem is I do not know of anything that I feel good about trying, and not risk my gains. I may have to play on the side. I want to shorten up the tails without losing the color in the tails, and lighten up the wings a shade, and have some variation to work on color in general. I do not want to lose the depth and width.

I hope we can get these right in time. It is a shame that they ever fell to the state that they did.

 

[cpartist]

Hi Chris

You are getting some good advice here, but remember it is not always easy to judge from photos and ultimately you will need to make your final choices on what you see in person. From your comments I believe you have the eye for this and I think you are looking at the right things. It is also hard to judge birds of different ages which is why I am going to do one big hatch of these to pick my second generation from, rather than hatching a few willy nilly....so I can compare apples to apples. Anyway, here is my 2 cents which is worth about that

# 1...correct on tail angle, it will likely get worse if anything. I think you can safely get rid of him now and never look back. # 2 is likely going to have a too high tail angle as well, but he has a nice full chest and head/neck area. If his body to tail transition is fairly smooth even with a too high angle, you can use him with lower tail angle hens. # 3 has a very nice top line. I would not worry about the fullness of the tail...that can and will change. What bothers be about # 3 is his chest appears to be "cut in". It could be the way he is standing, which is why up close and personal is better. Also, at 7 months, I'd expect to see a much wider head/neck area.

7 months old is when I made my final cuts. I got down to 3 and had my eye on this boy for the longest time...he was just so wide at 7 months:

He did not make the ultimate cut because of his too high tail angle, but I am keeping him around to make sex links with Delaware girls.
Despite the tail, he was a fast growing beefy boy. Notice the width of the head/neck compared to the 7 month old above.

These are the two that that made it into breeding pens, pictured at the same age:

Much better tail angles. This was really important to me as I am using some higher tailed females I normally wouldn't because they have good hackle ticking which is lacking in some of the German line.

Weight is the last thing I look at. Looking at the 3 above at 7 months the first one was clearly wider and heavier. When I weighed them at 10 months all three were within a few ounces of each other. By then, they had been separated and there was no competition between them. I DO look for early indication of size in juvies. I want to see wide set legs and a back that does not taper to the rear. IMO, a nice wide head/neck area is a good early indicator.

It is great you have so many to work with! You will not end up with one perfect bird. The best you can hope for is to be mindful of what you need going forward to offset any faults. That may mean keeping one with a higher tail angle that is otherwise good for type, and another that is not the best for size, but has a good top line.

 

[Matt1616]

My opinion is that it is to early to make a decision on whether or not either one of those birds is good enough to move on with. They need to be 8-9 months old before that decision is made unless there are some glaring problems.

Matt

 

[gjensen]

Another thing that is strain specific at least, is if their tails are pinched at twelve weeks, they will not magicly open up later. My point is that there are a few things that you can cull for early once you get to know what you have and how they grow out.
I am a little different in that @ 14 wks, half of my males are gone. @ 18 wks another quarter is gone. The last 25% grow out until their first birthday, unless something obvious develops along the way. I feel like I can get away with this, because I hatch quite a few. I will not keep the bottom half concerning the rate that they mature, because of what they are.
I go by the idea that the one you want is the one that never gives you a reason to cull it.

 

[gjensen]

CBNovick, I would not stress the tail angle too much. I am not disagreeing with Walt. The tail is too low. It will lift a bit, but not enough.

The reason I say that, is the next generation will be more random. The initial cross is more consistent than the next generation. The family(s) behind the bird has as much or more influence than the original bird. You will end up battling too high of tails more than you will tails that are too low. I am saying if that is the best you have to start with, do not sweat it. You will have a variety to choose from next year.
What I am saying may not make sense now, but it will next year. The results after next year is what is going to tell on you. Keep irds that flesh out early to choose from, even if that means hatching more.
You have a fun project ahead of you and good genetics to play with.

 

[har]

Kind of quiet here. My birthday the other day. I got the book The Call Of The Hen and subscription to the poultry press. That is just wonderful. They both will be good reading.

 

[NYREDS]

Cool pics, its always nice to see NH's winning ribbons, congrats Rhonda and to your daughter too. great job

Jeff

Starting to be some nice ones around. I made a cockerel Champion Large Fowl at the New England Bantam Club show a couple weeks back. There were a total of 6 really nice New Hampshires, all shown by Guy Roy.

 

[fowlman01]

Champion American PCBC show in CA last weekend. 8 months old. Bad lighting does not show the true bright color of this bird.




Walt

 

[catdaddyfro]

I would not have had this kind of success without getting a start with Kathy Bonham's well bred NH's.
The offspring are much better than the parents. ..that is a great direction to go. The more these win the more the judges take them seriously instead of going automatically to the white Rocks for class champion. .

Oh yes I can attest to that, Mrs. Kathy has great stock. I have the proof right here in my sight daily. This coming year I will be breeding from my selected ones from this stock myself and if what I see you have accomplished with yours and others have done too, I think I'm going to be pleased with the results. I've hatched a few from them in the past (nothing serious or in great numbers) but they have equaled or improved from what I mated from. That is a good sign to me that there are good genes in play here.

Jeff

 

[omegorchards]

My Reserve Champ. American cockerel, Pacific Poultry Breeders Assoc. winter show in Stockton on Jan 26, 2014. It was a wonderful time with many (2,500+) good looking birds. Thanks to all that made this show possible. Better pics to follow later when I get the time to take them.