HELP! Need counter-arguments for non-believers.

[khorvath]

I am in the midst of working to legalize backyard hens in my town (a suburb of Chicago). I've got a small group of volunteers, an ongoing petition with 350 signatures from residents, and a few supportive aldermen. We failed in city council 2 years ago but are back with some new aldermen and I am hoping this year will work. However, I am going up against some really crotchety folks who won't listen to reason.

Last night I was invited to speak at a ward meeting. Right away I knew I was in trouble when a few old men behind me started laughing and making chicken sounds when they saw me. Classy! I came prepared with tons of statistics, letters from avian vets as well as all the nearby towns that allow hens. I had a good case. But as I spoke there were a few people (they are always the loudest and meanest) that were not having it. Remembering that last time salmonella was the big sticking point I gathered so many statistics to make their head spin. However, that didn't seem to be the issue with this group.

Noise. Smell. Lowering property values. Those were their big arguments and no matter what statistics I gave them they didn't agree. Some of their fine points...

• It is okay for loud dogs to bark all day because they are dogs. That's what they do. And chickens are louder. Period. Nope... chickens are louder than dogs.
• Residents won't be able to sell their house if there are chickens next door. No one will want to live near that.
• My neighbor has a farm nearby and brought chicken poop to fertilize her garden and it smelled horrible forever. Worse than all other fertilizer because that smell goes away. Not chicken poop smell. Nope. Never goes away.
• No one will want to move to our town anymore. We will be a laughing stock. People will call us 'Chicken town'.
• If the ordinance says they have to be 10 feet from the property line they aren't going to put it by their house, they will put it under my bedroom window and I will have to hear chickens all day and it will smell and I won't be able to live there.
• It is okay that dogs are loud because they can go inside. Chickens will be loud outside all day long.
• My property values!!!!!!
• Chickens are farm animals for a reason. We aren't farmers. They should only be on farms.

So these are just a few of the things I heard last night. The worst part is that they were so angry about it. Just really seething. I am totally happy having rational discussions with people that have differing opinions but it is hard to talk to people that come at you yelling with such hostility before you've even opened your mouth. I just smiled, nodded, told them I heard them and countered as much as I could. But I would really LOVE any rational points I can bring up to counter these ridiculous arguments since they didn't want to hear facts (chicken decibels vs. barking dogs decibels) (amount of dog waste vs. chicken waste). Help me please find ways to reach these people and appeal to their senses (if they have any)

 

[Cyprus]

While I don't condone their hostility, I can't really blame them. I can see the rationale behind not wanting chickens in a suburban setting and I rally behind that. One of the biggest things is that chickens are on the menu for everyone. Chickens attract pests and pests are an unwelcome nuisance.

My neighbor can attest to a lower property value from me having chickens. Then you also have the whole issue of disease transmission like the Newcastle lesson that SoCal learned earlier this year.

 

[khorvath]

While I don't condone their hostility, I can't really blame them. I can see the rationale behind not wanting chickens in a suburban setting and I rally behind that. One of the biggest things is that chickens are on the menu for everyone. Chickens attract pests and pests are an unwelcome nuisance.

My neighbor can attest to a lower property value from me having chickens. Then you also have the whole issue of disease transmission like the Newcastle lesson that SoCal learned earlier this year.

I have to respectfully disagree. All of the other neighboring, much more affluent towns in our area that allow hens have reported no issues in lowering property values. There are a TON of suburban areas that allow hens. I'm curious to know how your neighbor can be sure that a lower property value is a direct result of your hens and not something else. That seems really hard to prove.

 

[Cyprus]

I have to respectfully disagree. All of the other neighboring, much more affluent towns in our area that allow hens have reported no issues in lowering property values. There are a TON of suburban areas that allow hens. I'm curious to know how your neighbor can be sure that a lower property value is a direct result of your hens and not something else. That seems really hard to prove.

I don't live in suburbia. I didn't ever really talk to her, but I know she moved because she got sick of my rooster.
I don't think your adjacent neighborhoods have yet learned that they'll lose money raising chickens.

As they say, if you want to become a millionaire raising chickens, start off as a billionaire.


As it is, statistics show the backyard poultry fad is rapidly fading. More and more people are getting out of chickens as, again, they are learning that they are losing a lot of money. Coupled with lack of veterinary care and a short lifespan/lay period, chickens are not suited to be the next suburban household pet.

 

[CallieSFlock]

While I don't condone their hostility, I can't really blame them. I can see the rationale behind not wanting chickens in a suburban setting and I rally behind that. One of the biggest things is that chickens are on the menu for everyone. Chickens attract pests and pests are an unwelcome nuisance.

My neighbor can attest to a lower property value from me having chickens. Then you also have the whole issue of disease transmission like the Newcastle lesson that SoCal learned earlier this year.

Cypress,
I don't believe what horvath is pushing for would be a huge amount of chickens. In sure it would have a cap on it that allowed only a small number of chickens. The county I just moved from allowed 4 hens but no rooster. I'm sure he is pushing for something similar to that.
The truth of something that sized is that no one will even know you have chickens unless you tell them or have them where people can see them. I should know. I had 11 hens instead of the 4 was allowed. I lived in a neighborhood with close nextdoor neighbors. No one had a clue. It didn't affect anyone's property value. They didn't trash the place I kept it nice everything was great.

 

[khorvath]

I don't live in suburbia. I didn't ever really talk to her, but I know she moved because she got sick of my rooster.
I don't think your adjacent neighborhoods have yet learned that they'll lose money raising chickens.

As they say, if you want to become a millionaire raising chickens, start off as a billionaire.


As it is, statistics show the backyard poultry fad is rapidly fading. More and more people are getting out of chickens as, again, they are learning that they are losing a lot of money. Coupled with lack of veterinary care and a short lifespan/lay period, chickens are not suited to be the next suburban household pet.

Cyprus, not sure if your tone is meant to be condescending on purpose of if this is just a case of digital misunderstanding? Clearly, we disagree and I'm guessing this board is full of people on both sides. And that is okay.

We are talking about a small coop with 4-6 hens. Not a factory production. No one intends to sell eggs or meat. I get that you don't think hens are appropriate for anywhere but the country but there are thousands of households across the country in 'suburbia' and larger cities that disagree. Again, that is okay and I completely respect you having that opinion and hope we can 'agree to disagree'.

I think it is great that you want to make sure people know what they are getting into and I do worry about this as a "hipster fad". I've been doing a lot of research for 3 years, have attended classes, visited coops, looked at the cost. I am not taking this lightly. But I wouldn't do that with any other animal in my care either. I'm sure I could learn a lot from you and will happily read through your old posts to continue learning more.

Moving forward I guess I'd like to see if anyone else has input that can offer solutions to my initial post as I know there are suburban hen keepers on here.

 

[rosemarythyme]

The problem is if the naysayers are absolutely set on their "facts" it'll be hard to change their minds, regardless of how much evidence you bring to the contrary.

What might help if you haven't already done so is to come up with a possible set of rules to show how chickens could be managed in a backyard with minimal impact to neighbors. I know not everyone is keen on having a lot of restrictions, but think of it as a compromise - maybe if there's enough rules in place some of those it'll address some of the concerns of the naysayers (or people on the fence). Maybe prospective owners need to get a permit or adjoining neighbors approval first. Have a limit of 3 or 4, hens only, chickens must stay confined in a coop or run at all times, chicken enclosures must be cleaned X amount of times a month/quarter, etc.

 

[so lucky]

I'm surprised that the people holding the meeting allowed the hecklers to continue.
Can you go get more signatures on your petition? I like rosemarythyme's ideas for setting up suggested regulations that may assuage the naysayers' fears.

 

[Ribh]

I'm assuming you have discussed numbers limits, housing restrictions, odour elimination, food storage, no roosters etc. I understand their concerns but they arise from poor husbandry. Perhaps running courses for potential chicken keepers on how to best manage their flock & council expectations & attending said course is a requirement before being granted the right to keep chickens. I'm not big on being regulated but @ this point...

 

[Cyprus]

OP what's the average land lot size of the houses in your neighborhood? Most places have a strict 1 acre minimum land size for chickens.