HELP - Young silkie ? prolapse

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by Stonerowfarm, Oct 27, 2009.

  1. Stonerowfarm

    Stonerowfarm Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Sep 16, 2008
    Cheshire, MA
    When I went out to close up the chickens I notice one off by herself. When I check her, she appears to have some of her insides, coming out. She is young, hatched around June 1 and while one of the other silkies has laid a couple eggs, most are not laying yet.

    I just got off the phone with the vet and an ER visit is $150 plus treatment. Doctor told me the best they can do is reduce the prolapse (if that is what it is). Is there a way to tell if this is a true prolapse and if it is; what do you all recommend? Should I cull her as I don't want her suffering and I would have a hard time justifying the cost of an ER visit.

    thanks
     
  2. Shannon's Chix

    Shannon's Chix Chillin' With My Peeps

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    N.E. Florida
    I had the same problem with my silkie chick not too long ago. I would stick your baby's behind in cool water...not warm not cold. Apply preparation H and hopefully you will be able to gently push it back in. You can also use honey.

    Give her 1/2 pedialyte, 1/2 water mixture, dip her beak if she will not drink. Try feeding some scrambled eggs or yogurt.

    Good luck![​IMG]
     
  3. silkiechicken

    silkiechicken Staff PhD Premium Member

    Posting a pic can probably have people here tell you if it is a prolapse. Then ConservaChick's advice is sound. PrepH (ideally pure witch hazel), or sugar/honey will shrink the tissue and hopefully you can push it back in. If it happens again, she may always have the issue and she would need a hysterectomy if you wished to keep her alive.
     
  4. Stonerowfarm

    Stonerowfarm Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Unfortunately I'm alone and can't post a pic. Even if I could take one, I can never figure out how to upload them. I'm going to try to soak her and see if anything can be done. At this point I'm just afraid of making it worse or causing her pain.
     
  5. Shannon's Chix

    Shannon's Chix Chillin' With My Peeps

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    When my chick had this problem...I spent a lot of time on here searching old threads on this issue. Unfortunately it seems like a bad outcome most of the time without professional intervention (which I couldn't do either).

    I would give it a try and see though because there have been some happy endings, but that being said after I did what I could do and she didn't get better, I should have culled to keep her from suffering at the end.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Stonerowfarm

    Stonerowfarm Chillin' With My Peeps

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    That's what I'm afraid of. I don't want to cause her any unnecessary suffering. I'm going to put her in a cool bath and try to better assess the situation. Hubby won't be home for at least an hour and hopefully by then, if she needs to be culled, he'll be able to do it.

    Unfortunately, I just can't bring myself to cull an animal just yet. Hell, I don't even kill the rats we catch in the barn. I'm such a wuss.
     
  7. Buugette

    Buugette [IMG]emojione/assets/png/2665.png?v=2.2.7[/IMG]Cra

    May 26, 2009
    Bucks County, PA
    This is from another thread on here from dlhunicorn:

    Here are some very good articles on it:
    http://www.avianweb.com/Prolapse.htm
    There are a number of potential causes for this condition and a number of possible solutions depending on the cause. Egg binding can be a cause, and remember egg binding is not simply the physical presence of an egg, it is the deficiency of calcium in the blood and tissues. Therefore it may occur any time before, during or immediately after egg laying. Even when adequate Calcium is available, it may still occur because the amount of calcium required for egg shell production is greater than the amount of Calcium a bird can eat in a 24hr period. This is why the breeding hen must be in perfect condition for breeding, this ensures she has adequate calcium stored in her bones prior to breeding, readily available at an instance notice.

    Because egg binding is really hypocalcaemia (low blood calcium) all muscles of the body become weak and contract poorly. The uterus cannot contract enough to deliver the egg, the cloacal sphincter muscles may be too weak to hold close and the general body muscles may not be burning energy to keep the bird warm - hence they go into shock. Therefore any bird with a cloacal prolapse should be kept warm and given calcium in some form to hopefully increase cloacal muscle tone. I favour crop dosing with liquid calcium as well as in water calcium sources in these cases. Of course cuttlefish never goes astray.

    Cloacal prolapse is also contributed to by uterine or cloacal infection that makes the area irritated and causes straining, resulting in expulsion of the cloaca. Therefore it is standard to give these birds antibiotics in case of infection. If a prolapse is exposed to the air for any length of time, infection is almost certain to develop, and with time the tissue dries out which causes further irritation and more straining -end result bigger prolapse.

    Lubricating and gently replacing the prolapsed tissue is important, but be careful what you use. Water soluble lubricants designed for people are good. Sometimes mild antiseptics are indicated, but be careful not to cause further tissue damage.

    In many cases, the prolapse will not resolve and treatment becomes Veterinary in nature with surgery the only option. A purse string suture may be placed around the vent under general anesthesia to keep things inside. But this also often fails. If the bird is a pet, the best option is desexing to remove the swollen uterus and if necessary a procedure called cloacapexy to stitch the cloaca back inside the body. These procedures are quite successful but obviously prevent the bird from further breeding. I have never performed these procedures on birds smaller than a Cockatiel, obviously the stress and length of surgery have to be considered when dealing with a finch.

    If the tissue looks healthy, that is important, if it looks dried and dying, things are probably too late. Mineral oil is not a good idea, either in this situation or in egg binding. It is part of the common misconception that egg binding, or straining equals constipation. There is no physical obstruction in either case, so mineral oil will only cause diarrhea at best. At worse it can cause a GI tract upset that can make the bird even more unwell. I have always been amazed at the number of people who think oral oil will lubricate the reproductive tract. (not a personal criticism of you, but an observation of aviculturists writing bird books).

    If an egg is in the lower reproductive tract or cloaca for any length of time, the uterus and cloaca can dry out and require lubrication, but it must be applied in a retrograde fashion up the cloaca. When I was referring to human water soluble lubricants, I was not meaning for hemorrhoids, but for reproduction - that is K-Y jelly or similar, not oil based lubricants
    Hemorrhoids is a different problem totally to what the bird is suffering. In the human case there are badly swollen blood vessels that need to be constricted - hence the phenylephrine in it. In the case of the bird, there may be some small vascular swelling that could benefit from constriction, however the risk is the bird may absorb large quantities of the phenylephrine and this could have a systemic effect (whole bird).

    So no, I would not normally recommend this type of ointment.
    The calcium solution I use is called Calcium Sandoz. I would give a Zebra 0.1ml orally with a crop needle if it was eggbound or prolapsed. I might repeat this if I felt it was necessary, sometimes 3-4 times daily. I often also use it in water at the rate of 10ml/liter. It needs to be made fresh at least daily. It has the added benefit of being high in sugars, making it palatable and being useful for a bird in shock/stress, however it will grow bacteria in the water supply so this must be considered.

    I would normally always use antibiotics in these cases, as I explained infection is sometimes the causative factor. However pet shop type antibiotics should never be used in any situation as they have little effect on pathogens (disease causing bacteria). This is the reason why they are available without prescription - they are useless. The choice of antibiotic and dose rate is obviously the decision of the Veterinarian treating the case.
    For the aviculturists faced with a prolapsed cloaca, you must stop short of the antibiotics, relying only on the calcium, cloacal replacement and supportive treatment. If this does not work, then it is a Veterinary matter, or else humane euthanasia.

    http://www.agric.gov.ab.ca/livestock/poultry/prolapse.html


    http://www.exoticpetvet.com/breeds/birdsmashdiet4.htm
     
  8. Stonerowfarm

    Stonerowfarm Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Sep 16, 2008
    Cheshire, MA
    Wow - what great info. Since this is her first egg (or attempt) and all the other hens are doing great with egg production, I wonder if it's just her rather than a calcium deficiency. I started the babies on reg laying crumbles by 16 weeks just to make sure they were getting enough calcium well before their reproductive systems kicked in. However, because these babies are just starting laying (only one of 18 silkes and frizzles) now I'm nervous about the others. My regular hens never have any problems but I wondered if it is a banty issue more than a regular size hen issue.

    I wish I could get a pic to post as some of the prolapses I've seen on site don't look like what she has going on.
     
  9. addy8

    addy8 Out Of The Brooder

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    the Best Peach State
    I have a buff orpington that had a pretty severe prolapse, one of the worst I've ever seen. I decided to try to fix it because she didn't have a history of soft shelled eggs or other issues. She had completely inverted the oviduct around the egg and pushed everything out-kind of like a balled up sock in the wash. By the time I discovered her she was very swollen and a quarter sized patch of her oviduct tissue had already died, and to top it off everything was covered in dirt, poo, and blood.
    This is what I did:
    -Filled a plastic basin with very warm water, several cups of sugar and a big splash of betadine. (I didn't measure, she was getting shocky) "Sugar-dine" is fantastic for bringing down swelling quickly- its usually mixed without water added to form a paste, also makes a great wound dressing that aids in re-granulation of tissues.
    -I plopped her in, on her back, holding her feet, rear facing me.
    -I loosened up as much of the crud as possible, while my helper (9 yr old DD) fetched a second basin of prepared the same way, then moved her to the fresh basin, we did this three times before she was clean and the swelling was reduced enough to see the full extent of the damage.
    -I inspected the mass, then tried to see if the egg could removed. (which was fully formed with a shell) I realized that I could see the egg through the hole in her oviduct, I pushed the egg out through that hole- it appeared to be the least traumatic way to remove it. Thankfully it was unbroken.
    - I flushed the hole with the sugar-dine/water solution then squirted about 1/2 ml of penicillin into the hole the the oviduct- I was afraid of fecal contamination. (While I did this my helper was looking for suture, no luck) The tissue was too friable around the hole to sew back together.
    -I pushed everything back through her vent, carefully inserting a gloved finger to make sure it was all seated properly. She still had tissue trying to push back out.
    -Since we could find no suture anywhere, I decided to use an upholstery needle and dental floss to put in a purse-string suture in her vent. I trimmed away the surrounding feathers and swabbed her vent with betadine. I then did a biggish running stitch in the margin of the vent (the lips) leaving a tail free to tie off. I went all the way around, leaving another tail to meet up with the starting point. I gently gathered the stitches by pulling on the tails, and then knotted them. (making sure to leave it just loose enough to insert a pinkie tip) I had her on her back for all of this, with my helper holding her feet. Amazingly, she didn't put up any fuss for any of this! (the pullet, not my daughter, but she was pretty good too!)
    -I then gave her 1/2 ml of penicillin into the breast muscle.
    -She then was placed in our mobile chicken hospital, a med-large dog carrier. I gave her warm water with several tums dissolved in it, to boost her calcium level, it helps with muscle tone. She also got some hard boiled eggs with a couple of drops of Nutri-drench added.
    -I continued the penicillin for 7 days, and checked her stitches every couple of hours throughout that time. Initially she still had a small amount of tissue that would peek out of the vent, but it was easily pushed back in with the aid of some ('caine free) Neosporin. I also checked to make sure she didn't have an egg coming down the pike every few hours, amazingly she ceased egg production during this time- I kept her carrier darkened with a towel over it, and restricted her food a few days after the incident, when she appeared to be on the mend- I was trying to force a moult, didn't work, but at least she quit laying during all this!
    -On the seventh day, I removed the suture by cutting the knot and pulling it, she bled a tiny bit where the stitches had been, but otherwise had healed up nicely. About a week later she started laying again without incident.
    All of this happened about 7 weeks ago, so far so good. I did notice this morning she had a slight case of "dirty butt" but laid an egg later without incident. I'm glad she appears to have recovered completely, but if she seems to be prone to prolapse later on I will cull her.
    I hope this helps you, and I hope your girl recovers!
    -
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2009

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