Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

I don't know that I agree with that fully. I think it's just breed potential and what they've been developed towards. I know a good many small breeds and birds out there that can't lay worth a shucks and I've had big mama jamma White Rocks put eggs in the nest when all the others have stopped~consistently and for years. There are true dual purpose breeds out there.... and then there are just some bigger birds that lay eggs because they are chickens.

I think laying prowess is breed specific, not size specific.
Let's put it this way as a comparative. Production Reds (which are often sold as Rhode Island Reds) are much, MUCH smaller in size than their true Rhode Island Red counterparts, yet the true Rhode Island Red is less productive than it's hatchery counterpart. The true Rhode Island Reds, which may have existed in hatcheries 20-25 years ago may have been more true to type and size than what is available nowadays. The reason for this, is that the birds are smaller as the breeders chose birds that were most productive as breeders. They wanted birds that reached maturity fast and produced as many eggs as possible to increase their sales. It's why the overall body shape and size of the breeders for a hatchery are so much smaller than you would see at a show. A bird at a show, as many have stated before, would not be used in a hatchery breeding scheme as they simply do not mature as fast, nor lay as many eggs as the more productive, and yes, smaller birds. By choosing these more productive birds, the smaller body frame caused the overall size of the bird to drop to little more of that than the Leghorn. When you compare the two side-by-side, a production Red (hatchery Rhode Island Red) and a Leghorn, the overall body shape and size has very little difference at all.

You could do the same with a Brahma. A production bred Brahma (really nothing more than a underfeathered Cochin with leakage...) is now developing the same smaller framed body style that has taken over the hatchery breeding scheme. A smaller bird simply matures faster which allows for more eggs to be laid in the bird's lifetime. Then there's the aspect that once the bird reaches maturity, it requires less feed to sustain it's own body mass so more of the nutrients are able to go into producing eggs, possibly at a faster time frame. A larger bird requires more feed to not only sustain it's larger mass, but to also maintain a body mass that is necessary to reach it's optimum level for reproduction.

Another example is the Leghorn. A production Leghorn is one of the best layers I've ever seen. A Leghorn from a hatchery or used in any production facility will have no issue outlaying a bird bred for the showroom or for the SOP. The reason? The body size of a production Leghorn is, overall, smaller than a bird bred towards the SOP. Truly the only things that a Leghorn from a hatchery can claim as possibly resembling it's breed description is that it's comb flops and it lays white eggs.
 
One thing to remember is that size and egg production are inversely correlated, the larger the bird, the less eggs they will lay. It's why Leghorns are one of the best producers out there, they are among the lightest/smaller breeds and why you'd be lucky to find a Jersey Giant hen that lays above 160+ eggs a year.

For their size, my Langshans are my best layers. I'm still getting 18 eggs every 2 days, even the bantams are busting out the eggs like it's Easter. They're keeping up with my Leghorn which is also producing smaller eggs than my larger Langshan pullets.

I digress, the smaller the bird, the more (generally speaking) they should lay. Minorcas lay less than Leghorns but it may be possible to increase the amount of laying but I wouldn't expect any bird with any amount of size to be able to compete in laying volume against a smaller bird.
hmm.png
That's what I was figuring. I would like to have some larger sized Brahmas but I don't want to have to sacrifice egg production too much. Need to find that nice happy medium. I got the coop nice and fumigated today. I went through almost one entire can of sevin dust in my 6x8 coop. I took and used our air compressor to get it to blow into every nook and cranny to kill off those dumb mites. I also put ivermectin pour on on everyone and later today plan on putting sevin on them.
 
Yes. How are you doing M ____la, my longtime friend? I agree with you. Put another way: Increase egg production beyond what the breed should be and you decrease the meat qualities, thus a dual purpose breed is not going to lay like an egg breed nor be as good a meat bird as a purely meat breed -- but a dual purpose breed is going to be a better meat bird than an egg breed AND a better layer than a meat breed -- you move one direction, you lose the other . . . . also, some dual purpose birds are geared more one way than the other. Some strains of the same breed or geared more one way than the other. Other strains might have lost both.
Exactly! :D Nice to see you still lurking on here my friend! The Langshan was bred to be the more prolific egg layer of the Asiatic class. You won't find as much meat on them as you would a Brahma and well...the Cochin is nothing more than a fluffy pincushion! ;)
 
I partially agree with this, but even with Leghorns you'll find birds that put a lot of their feed into fat and body mass rather than laying. But a larger framed leghorn is going to lay more than a smaller framed one, they just have more capacity to lay. That's why I use the method's I do with great result, they apply across all breeds. But yes larger "dual purpose" breeds will lay less than a smaller breed because the smaller breed doesn't have to spend the calories they intake to fuel a larger body. You can still select the birds that put more into their eggs and increase production though.
I disagree with your statement about the larger framed Leghorns laying more eggs. In terms of longetivity, yes, they will lay more in their lifetime, but in terms of higher production the larger birds cannot keep up with the smaller framed birds.
 
When the APA says dual purpose they were not talking about hens laying 300 eggs and weighing 10 lbs. Each breed or hybrid specializes in something even if it is called dual purpose. Tne hatcheries have put Leghorns into almost everything and tnat is why hatchery breeds bodies all look alike. If you want to get a lot of eggs why feed a 10lb hen? Get a hybrid that doesn't eat a lot.
 
When the APA says dual purpose they were not talking about hens laying 300 eggs and weighing 10 lbs. Each breed or hybrid specializes in something even if it is called dual purpose. Tne hatcheries have put Leghorns into almost everything and tnat is why hatchery breeds bodies all look alike. If you want to get a lot of eggs why feed a 10lb hen? Get a hybrid that doesn't eat a lot.
I'm not overly concerned with egg production I was more just curious if it was possible to have such a large hen lay 4-5 eggs/week.
 
When the APA says dual purpose they were not talking about hens laying 300 eggs and weighing 10 lbs. Each breed or hybrid specializes in something even if it is called dual purpose. Tne hatcheries have put Leghorns into almost everything and tnat is why hatchery breeds bodies all look alike. If you want to get a lot of eggs why feed a 10lb hen? Get a hybrid that doesn't eat a lot.
If only it were that simple. We as humans are never happy with what is, we must always strive for what we think we should attain.
 
Tne hatcheries have put Leghorns into almost everything and tnat is why hatchery breeds bodies all look alike.

In white silhouette, like the birds on top of this page, those graphical representations of chickens in the BYC header.
Folks do not want to hear this and most don't believe it. I have said this on some occasions here and it isn't a popular thing to say.
 
Plymouth White Rocks. That's the only bird I would consider truly dual purpose...excellent lay and incredible meat production.
Light Sussex can do this too.
Is there anyone on this thread besides Callducks and myself who are working with Light Sussex?
Just curious,
Happy New Year!
Karen
 
Last edited:

New posts New threads Active threads

Back
Top Bottom