Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[3riverschick]

~~Karen, Did you ever get the name of the LS breeder in ON you were looking for? Emily says he is still alive (but ill and from my understanding not doing great).
--------------------------------
Hi callducks,
No I never did. Can you send me a PM with the info?
Thanks,
Karen

 

[call ducks]

Quote: But all you need to do is produce for the next generation - You don't need to monitor how it will be producing in two years. Quite frankly I move stalk every year to keep with new stalk coming in and by the time they are two or three if they are not gone they will be! Chickens just are not meant to be this long producing animal. Never really have been. As long as you don't push them no matter what breed they will produce for 8-9 years.

 

[3riverschick]

Reliable Poultry Journal Vol XXIII No 1 , March 1916 - February 1917
http://tinyurl.com/kootsrc Page 431
Used as an example of Symmetry :
Picture of White Plymouth Rock which couldn't be faulted against the APA SOP.

 

[hellbender]

Not falling on deaf ears. There have been many posts with similar reasoning on this thread - hatch from hens with proven egg production and proven maintenance of type over time and several molts - and the vast majority of us agree with that concept. Those of us who do hatch from pullets generally do so because we have no choice. You should give us a little more credit. We are not stupid.

All those deserving credit, please assume it is given.

I knew when answering the question from what appeared to be a relative neophyte, (opinion based upon orthographic peucliarities‎) that a dreck storm might be stirred up but I chose to answer it anyway.

Thanks to those who express good will toward my son.

 

[hellbender]

Really a picture? You can select for egg laying ability and productivity when a pullet is ~20 weeks old and know how it is roughly going to preform - you don't need to keep them for years to use in a breeding program.

Often enough in life, I have encountered people who actually required a picture or some diagram to give them a clue. Nothing works all the time.

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

I suppose I'm one of the only ones to keep my pullets as breeding birds for several years before even considering passing them on to someone else?

If I have a bird that I like, I'm keeping that bird as a breeder until A. Another bird comes out that surpasses that bird, or B. That bird dies. As I've said before, my birds don't mature until approximately 10 months, only 2 short months short of becoming a hen in accordance to APA/ABA description of the word "pullet." I don't consider my pullets hens until 14 months, however if I decide to show them, they will be put as hens once they reach 12 months of age.

I'm not saying this as justification for setting pullet eggs, but only that one should take into consideration that you will be keeping these birds for several years in which to breed from. If you get rid of birds after a year or so of age, you must either be advancing your flock at a record pace or have very limited space. I am just now thinking of getting rid of a hen that I have had for 3 years. She has great type, but her tail is not as wide as some of the new pullets that I have growing up. She's also a bit short in the legs, but was a good breeder at one point. She's still pouring out the eggs at 3 years, but is overall a better setter than a breeder at this point. I can only put largefowl eggs under her, but better that than nothing. Point is, I didn't consider getting rid of her until I was sure I could carry on and improve the line without her in it.

If all you have is pullets and a cockerel, this is what I would do:

1. Wait until the eggs are an acceptable size. Don't hatch from eggs that are smaller than an average hen egg. The chicks almost always come out smaller than normal and for some reason weaker. Possibly because the hens are still not directing all the nutrients into the egg that would be necessary for a healthy, viable chick.
2. Make sure your male, when he does eventually develop, does not have any disqualifications. If you only have one cockerel and he has a DQ such as a side-sprig, although minor at the time, can cause severe headaches to anyone that is not knowledgeable about effectively culling it from the flock through the generations. Even then, it could still crop up. Sprigs on the legs, just...just don't. You can pluck, but remember, just because the judge can't see it doesn't mean you're not breeding it into future birds.
3. Choose your breeders from those pullets and cockerels very carefully. Don't make a rush decision on this. Watch them develop and really get a feel for which birds are better than the others. After all, this is the foundation for your future flock. Choosing a bird with a poor wing could be the continual downfall for years to come.

Just some observations I've made over the years, but for sure not the come all-end all of poultry.

 

[3riverschick]

Often enough in life, I have encountered people who actually required a picture or some diagram to give them a clue. Nothing works all the time.

I do. I am a very visual learner. I do best when I have guidelines, pics, charts and tables.
Thank you,
Karen

 

[catdaddyfro]

You are right, you can select for future production at that age...for that year. You cannot guarantee performance for many years going forward. You can tell if they have that potential, but not all potential realizes itself. This is very similar to how a bird bred to the standard has the body to potentially produce well, but if not selected for those traits may not perform to it's full potential. Kind of like a Camaro with a v6 instead of a v8. So you select birds that will produce well that coming year. Then monitor them and re-examine as they enter their second year, see which ones will still be productive, keep them, and repeat every year.

LOL great analogy Matt. I myself think a Camaro with anything in it other than the baddest azz, nastiest, performance version of a V-8 engine offered at the time is pure blasphemy and should be against the law. LOL But in chickens I still reckon there are so many options available and it is up the breeder to get them however they see fit to do so. Myself I'd love for my strains to begin laying at 6 mo old and continue to do so till they are 5 or 6 yo. or plum ragged out, but ones not likely to get all of them to do that tho. I'm a far better hotrodder than a chicken breeder. Hotrods are easy compared to breeding correct birds for sure.

Jeff

 

[brahmabreeder]

No I don't. A partition is a good idea tho. It would take several days to figure out which one. hum... I could make a wire cage to set in the corner.
thanks,
Karen

I HIGHLY recommend getting some Keipper cages. I have five and love having them.

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

LOL great analogy Matt. I myself think a Camaro with anything in it other than the baddest azz, nastiest, performance version of a V-8 engine offered at the time

Jeff

A hoosey-whatsit?