Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[Vamvakas]

When ever I order from a judge/master breeder for chicks it feels like I am filling my tank up with gas... Can't go wrong with a full tank of gas, it gives you energy.

 

[gjensen]

I wonder if anyonw would like to start a discussion on the different heritage breeds based on the different climates around the US and why one breed might thrive better than another in a given area. Might help the on lurkers think about a particular bird that is more likely to be a sucess in their own given area. For instance YHF has chosen dorkings, rose comb as I remember, to cope with the moist cold of his NH location; Ron has moved to birds that better cope with the California climate. ANy takers??

The issue with the combs is obvious.

Otherwise it is body type and feather type and qty.

Obviously chickens are pretty adaptable. Otherwise they would not be found worldwide.

Everything else being equal, body style and size can give a bird an advantage over another.

On the practice field in the summer, the big lineman are more prone to over heating. They are also more likely to be more lightly dressed when it is cold.

Mammals that have extensive ranges tend lighter closer to the equator, and larger farther away from it. Diet across those ranges is a factor, but the trend is still obvious.

White Tailed Deer in Florida are smaller than what you would find in the upper Midwest. Some of that is soil type. Where Florida soils are sandy and less fertile. Parasite loads are usually higher to. Still, genetically, they still trend much smaller. This implies a stressor that has put pressure on selection over time.
Another example is the cougar. They range from Argentina to the far North. Compare the Florida Panther to what you would find in the Pacific North West. Also the large ungulates in North America are found farther north. There are not any moose sized ungulates in Central America.
There is a lot of factors at play, but the trend is there.

The difference with chickens, is that you are the stressor that selects. You can have larger birds that tolerate the heat well, and smaller birds that handle the cold well. Still if all else was equal, one type would tend to do better than the other.
You can do well with any of them anywhere. I do tend to favor the idea of picking a breed that is more suitable to your area. I think that is setting off on the right foot. It also adds to regional variability and identity. The problem with that is often someone's tastes does not fit where they live. Nothing wrong with that, but you will notice that they tend to do more compensating in weather extremes. There is always exceptions though, and you are doing the selecting.

 

[3riverschick]

We also have a lot more modern conveniences than when these breeds were created.
Electricity, modern insulation. etc. All things that make that compensating much easier.
Best,
Karen

Principles and Practice of Poultry Culture
By John Henry Robinson
acclimatization excerpt from Page 75
"Adaptability to a wide range of climatic and other conditions is, as has been stated, one of the most valuable characteristics of poultry, but individual birds are not always affected alike by radical changes of environment, nor is the same individual always equally able to adapt itself to all changes. The process of acclimatization requires time. An individual, or a stock generally, may be so unfavorably affected by a change that it is advisable to discard it and try other stock, but, as a rule, by judicious care and breeding a stock may* be established anywhere within a few years. Nor are there such differences in results from poultry under different climatic conditions as might be supposed, because, on the whole, the advantages and disadvantages due to such conditions are equalized in a year's work." http://tinyurl.com/kjgye3b

 

[3riverschick]

Charcoal for Poultry
Note the dates on the quotes below. Is this still a good idea?
Or is it obsolete advice because we have better ways now.
Thanks
Karen
. --------------------------
The Poultry Nation - Volumes 2-6 - Page 118
books.google.com/books?id=iClJAAAAYAAJ
1876
Charcoal For Poultry.
There is one thing which nature does not supply and which civilization renders quite necessary to fowls. It is charcoal. But charcoal made of wood does not answer the purpose; it has no taste of food, is not attractive to fowls, and is seldom eaten. But if any one will put an ear of ripe corn into the lire till the grains are well chared, and then shell off the corn and throw it to his flock, he will see an eagerness developed and a healthy condition brought about which will make a decided improvement. All pale combs will become a bright red, that busy song which precedes laying will be heard, ind the average, yield of eggs will be greatly increased.
-------------------
Poultry World - Volumes 13-14 - Page 95
books.google.com/books?id=cDBJAAAAYAAJ
1884 Page 95 —There is one thing which nature does not supply, and which civilization renders quite necessary to fowls. It is charcoal. Charcoal made of wood does not answer the purpose; it has no taste of food, is not attractive to fowls, and is seldom eaten. But if any one will put an ear of ripe corn into the lire until the grains are well charred, and then shell oil the com and throw it to the flock, he will see an eagerness developed, and a healthy constitution also.
=====================
Western Garden and Poultry Journal,
Volumes 3-5 Page 182 , 1892
Nature does not provide charcoal, and it is one essential that is necessary to the health of fowls. Common wood charcoal does not fill the bill, as it is almost tasteless. If you will place an ear of corn in the oven and cook it until it is well charred, and then shell off the corn and throw it to your flock you will at once notice an eagerness developed, and soon a healthy condition is brought about and pale combs will disappear
---------------------------------------
Commercial Poultry - Volumes 12-13 - Page 17
books.google.com/books?id=7NNIAAAAYAAJ
1903 Page 17
Are you supplying your chicks with granulated charcoal? They need it to keep them in good condition. In the absence of the granulated article, char a few ears of corn in the fire and crush. This makes an excellent bowel regulator and clarifier.
======================

 

[saladin]

Today you will read that charcoal has no benefit at all.

With that said, after I have a fire (burn off garden and other areas) the ducks, geese, turkeys and young free-rangers will be right in the middle of it eating everything in sight. What is to eat this time of year except the charcoal? Obviously, the birds think it's good. Maybe they haven't read the new updated material? I mean I do have 'old' breeds. LOL.

As a matter of fact, most of my birds love FIRE. While a field is raging they will be in the thick of it, flames jumping all around too! I've always been amazed at the fact that none of my birds seem to be the least bit afraid of fire.

I had a peacock a few years back that I literally had to knock silly to keep it out of the fire.

 

[thedragonlady]

Today you will read that charcoal has no benefit at all.

With that said, after I have a fire (burn off garden and other areas) the ducks, geese, turkeys and young free-rangers will be right in the middle of it eating everything in sight. What is to eat this time of year except the charcoal? Obviously, the birds think it's good. Maybe they haven't read the new updated material? I mean I do have 'old' breeds. LOL.

As a matter of fact, most of my birds love FIRE. While a field is raging they will be in the thick of it, flames jumping all around too! I've always been amazed at the fact that none of my birds seem to be the least bit afraid of fire.

I had a peacock a few years back that I literally had to knock silly to keep it out of the fire.

I think all of our birds would have been singing their feathers in a fire this week, Chuck.

 

[saladin]

Ain't that the truth. These South Carolina chickens aren't use to this cold: neither are their keepers!

 

[har]

When ever I order from a judge/master breeder for chicks it feels like I am filling my tank up with gas... Can't go wrong with a full tank of gas, it gives you energy.

 

[Arielle]

Quote:

THis implies, if I am understanding this fully, that folks looking for a good start in a heritage breed would greatly benefit from finding a local breeder where the poultry has already adapted to the local conditions; or be willing to deal with possilbly a poorer performance during the time of acclimation. I would think the latter would be a difficult obstacle to overcome for anyone new to breeding high quality birds.

When I was growing up in Maine, only brown eggs were at the grocery. ANd to this day, white eggs look strange to me. THis reflected the type of bird that thrived in the Maine climate even when kept in a commercial building. Or perhaps when commercial buildings became the norm, brown eggers were used because that what the product the consumers were already accustomed to.

Another variabilty I am seeing between breeds is matureity-- I expect this reflected the local diet and management style in the development of the breed. Perhaps a breed that took longer to develop also required less feed day to day whereas others that are fast growing and maturing reflected an abundance of readily available foods.

ANd what about disease resistence-- I would expect local issue that might be common in one area to be not a problem in another. SO again buying poultry already adapted to the local area could be a bonus for those somewhat new to poultry.

 

[fowlman01]

Today you will read that charcoal has no benefit at all.

With that said, after I have a fire (burn off garden and other areas) the ducks, geese, turkeys and young free-rangers will be right in the middle of it eating everything in sight. What is to eat this time of year except the charcoal? Obviously, the birds think it's good. Maybe they haven't read the new updated material? I mean I do have 'old' breeds. LOL.

As a matter of fact, most of my birds love FIRE. While a field is raging they will be in the thick of it, flames jumping all around too! I've always been amazed at the fact that none of my birds seem to be the least bit afraid of fire.

I had a peacock a few years back that I literally had to knock silly to keep it out of the fire.

Since you mentioned that charcoal has been debunked...lol...what is your opinion of the notion that grain can help birds keep warm if fed before they go to roost at night? You have raised a lot of birds so I'm guessing you have an opinion.

Walt