How big should my flock be?

[mirandalola]

If I want to eventually supply my family with 5 chickens on the table every month?

Theoretically, I'll be breeding my own flock. So, I guess another way to ask would be, How many chickens should I start with if I want my chickens to be hatching and raising 60 chicks every year?

 

[rebrascora]

I agree with aart. Handling roosters is not the best idea and the problem is that the day they turn you risk a serious injury if you are petting them at the time. Personally I think the best way to go with roosters is to get a 2 or even 3yr old, good natured one from an established flock where they are renewing their blood line. Once you have a rooster in your flock, cockerels that you breed within that flock learn from him and inherit his temperament. I've not had a problem with human aggression since I started raising young cockerels within the flock like this.

I have a flock of about 40 hens and pullets at the moment and probably another 25-30 male birds most of which are to process. I have just made a start and my crock pot and stock pot are both in action as I type. (I broody hatched 56 chicks this summer and more that 65 % were males, so I will have plenty of meat from them to last me until the summer. I just started 3 years ago and I'm still figuring things out. I acquired a light sussex hen and set quite a few of her eggs this summer and I was pleased with how quickly they filled out but I am still processing at about 6 months. Then again, these boys free range with my main laying flock until butchering time and I'm sure if I penned them separately and fed them up, I could get them up to weight more quickly. It's just not what I am interested in. I've set myself a target of processing two a week which is manageable and I can pick the two largest each time, giving the smaller ones time to beef up. I think this is probably the best way with broody reared birds as you end up with 3 or 4 males from each hatch and obviously they are hatching throughout the summer and autumn, so it makes sense to harvest them in small batches as they mature.

Of course at this time of year egg production dips right down, so I kind of see this as a time to eat mostly meat from my poultry and the summer when there is a glut, the time to eat mostly eggs and other meats that I trade for eggs and honey with other local small holders and farmers.

I have a very mixed flock as well as small breeding pens with bantams. The meat mostly comes from the main flock though and if I feel I want slightly more meaty cockerels then I throw in a larger hen or two like this year with the light sussex. I also like multi-coloured eggs, so I used to have a cream legbar rooster which also produced some bulk in the males and lots of mostly green but still some blue egg layers as well as white from my leghorns and various shades of brown from my welsummers, marans and subsequent crosses of them.

I'm not a planner like you, but more of a figure it out as I go along type person, so I'm sure you will manage much better than me. I do think it's a good idea to start small and let chicken maths do the rest.

As regards disease, I'm with aart. I care for my birds if they are sick but I draw the line at veterinary treatment and since antibiotics are not available here without prescription, they get the chance to fight illness and disease with whatever tlc and good nutrition I can give them and I despatch them once they give up trying. I have Marek's in my flock and a chronic respiratory disease. Both crop up from time to time and I lose the odd two or three to Marek's each year. The respiratory infection goes the rounds and then settles down and I haven't lost a bird to it in the past 2 years I've had it. I know they say chickens don't get colds, but a human cold is caused by a virus and I'm pretty sure what my chickens get is too. Sneezing and wheezing occasionally and looking a bit miserable, but so do I when I get cold. They get over it without pumping chemicals into them.

Anyway, I just thought I would add my experience of eggs and meat production to the thread as it seems like we might be in a similar situation.

Regards

Barbara

 

[lazy gardener]

Miranda, How many eggs will your family eat? Will you sell any surplus eggs? If so, I strongly suggest that you have an incubator. Are you ok with smaller birds for the table? While LF/heritage birds can supply both eggs and meat, IMO the grow out time for meat with a LF layer is a bit on the long side. You are looking at around 16 weeks. Their feed conversion rate is poor when compared to the CXR. But, if you intend to be self sustaining with your flock, I suggest that you get some Pioneers. Their grow out time is around 13 weeks, and they provide a nice carcass. Also, they are not prone to the systemic problems of the CXR, and you can breed successive generations from them. Pioneers are also pretty good layers. One year, I kept a hen back from the freezer, and she became my most productive layer. She did not have a long laying history, but while she layed, her eggs were massive and frequent. The down side of Pioneers is that the roos are massive. It might not be wise to have a Pioneer roo breeding the rest of your laying flock. So, if you have room for 2 flocks, I'd suggest that you get some Pioneers for your meat needs, and choose an other LF breed for your egg production. You can work some Pioneer pullets into your layer flock to beef up the gene pool.

In answer to your question, you will need to hatch 60 for meat + how ever many layers you need to replace the old layers each year. If you want 12 layers, that means 60 + 24 (b/c at least half of those layers will be roos, and they don't lay many eggs!) Now, figure out how you will be processing, how much freezer space you have, will you be canning the meat, do you want to keep your birds on the "hoof" and process just a few each month? Personally, I'd not want to be brooding chicks all year round, and would plan on having the storage to keep the processed birds in the freezer or canned. Also, it's a beast to be processing birds in warm weather. Flies and yellow jackets make warm weather processing horrid.

If you are new to having a chicken flock, I suggest that you start small the first year. Perhaps order your layers, and get some CXR for your first meat birds. You might throw in a few Pioneers to get you started on your second batch of meaties.

I also suggest that you explore brooding options: IMO, best to brood in the coop with a heating pad. Do a thread search on brooding outdoors and MHP brooder. When you plan your coop, design it so there will be electricity in the coop, and a separate area for brooding chicks. You will need 4 s.f. in coop per bird, and 10 s.f. in run per bird.

 

[aart]

Hard to say whether you should cull all and start over with fresh healthy chicks....or ride it out with the survivors.

From what I've read many diseases, including Mareks, are prevalent and carried without symptoms until stressors lower immunity and they bloom to debilitating or fatal levels. I've seen some mild respiratory symptoms in my flock, started with an adult flock that brought both disease and pests. I did not treat and they recovered fine. Also lost one this summer that had some nasty inside, likely avian leukosis, I can't afford pathology to confirm. But that was a hatchery bird and none of the others have had that inside when I slaughtered old hens and extra cockerels. Who knows now what my flock might be carrying. My outlook is... you can't kill all the bugs, you just have to manage what is there. I euthanize rather than treat or vaccinate...as that's a whole other slippery slope I don't care to set foot on.

Rotating stock for meat and layers is tricky, lots of ways to do it.....after 3 years I'm still playing with the best way to keep my small flock in fresh layers.
I don't raise meat birds but do harvest meat from my flock. Broodies are great but I prefer to incubate from my own flock for timings sake and my limited facilities.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I actually think the opposite is more true...familiarity (can) breeds contempt.
Could depend on the bird and the people handling it.

@Mrs. K Gave me the same advice just a few months ago that friendly young cockerels don't fear you anymore and in the chicken world, fear equates to respect.

I had a cockerel who would sit on my lap and just be so cool. But upon her advice I quit holding and started chasing a little. At first it didn't work, but he gets the point now. Once breeding age set in, that was all they cared about. He even tried to grab a pullet out of my lap once.

Another cockerel I have was never handled is very respectful, except to the dog playing frisbee. So yes he's going after the smaller ones first. Upon seeing this, I realize he must either be locked into a run or something.... On one hand, I'm proud because he only does it to protect the girls. But now my dog knows he is an unfriendly. I was out there and the dog looked at me like what should he do because they know I am the leader. But if I wasn't there, he might have reacted differently.

It's true all birds are individuals... But I reiterate THANK YOU for giving me the advice that seems opposite of common sense so I would never had suspected.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

@Englishable Nice plan..... We'll see what the ladies have to say about it.

I did have a BO from the hatchery go broody. She gave up after a couple weeks but I don't blame her. We were having terrible weather and she was a first timer and under the house, so no support from me.

Your stand offish roo is acting right. It's often the friendly ones that become human aggressive because they don't fear you. And in the chicken world, fear equals respect. Just make sure to walk through your friendly guys path. He must step out of your way.

Best wishes meeting your goals!

 

[Englishable]

Oh, and aart - the coop is attached to an old cabin that was on the property, not our house It was the original home of the first landowner in around 1911. The couple we bought the place from lived there for a year in 1977 when they were building a newer house, which is where we live. Since '78, the cabin seems to have been used mostly for storage as well as a second garage for the riding lawnmower. It's solid but has no plumbing or electricity and quite a bit of wear and tear on the outside; we had to run electric out for the coop. Our house is about 250 feet away, far enough that we don't get a lot of droppings in our yard, but still close enough the guineas can find us when they want a treat

 

[Mrs. K]

While 5 birds a month is a reasonable goal. It is a pretty steep one to start out with unless you have some help. I too will suggest, if you are new to chickens to start smaller, and work into it. I would just start with egg layers, then go to the meat birds. Get some experience. I also agree on doing several at once and freezing. It is a daunting job, and takes some time.

If I wanted to meet my meat needs with birds I raised myself, I would have two flocks, one for eggs and meat, and just meat birds. Do some research on the cornish cross birds. Once on here I read an article where as they kept both breeds of the flock, and then once or twice a year, crossed them to produce the meat carcasses.


As for numbers to produce 5 a month, a few hens is all you would need. An incubator, and a bit of luck, you should easily hatch out the 60 birds. Not all will live, some you might want to keep for future layers.

MrsK

 

[aart]

Good advice above.

Agrees if you are just starting out with chickens this year.....
Get thru a winter with the birds you have now.
Prepare a separate place to brood chicks in the coop for next spring.
Incubate some eggs next Feb/Mar or Apr...depending on your climate/location.
(putting your location in your profile can really help folks give better answers/suggestions)
Grow those chicks out, slaughter the extra cockerels.
Have you and your family eaten a homegrown dual purpose bird?
That might help you decide if growing a couple batches of CX is better than just eating the 'layer' stock.

All this time you will assess your housing needs and management preferences.

ETA: Reading your other threads, it sounds like you've had rough start to your chickeneering endeavor.
Do you have a coop built yet?

 

[mirandalola]

Thank you all for your advice. I do plan on starting small, not getting any more until my little flock has survived a winter. I just like to make plans upon plans and know what I'm getting into! God teaches me often that that is not my privilege! One step at a time and figure it out as I go... I do know that I'd much prefer to let a broody hen raise my next batch of chicks, partly because I love watching nature take its course and partly because that's less work for me! That means I've got to wait a few months until my month-old chicks are ready to raise their babies, and by then winter will be past and my new baby will be due as well!

We eat about 2-3 dozen eggs a week. Growing family with 4.5 children and doing most of my cooking from scratch Sometimes I feed eggs to my chicks, too!

Aart, I do feel like I've had a rough start but I am amazed at the happiness my little chicks bring me. I put them outside in the morning in a little pen, and every time I go visit them they all come running to see me! The coop is finished except for the roosts; the weather is turning colder and I am dragging my feet actually sticking them out there but it will happen in the next few days. They are now 4.5 and 5.5 weeks old, plenty old enough to handle it from what I've read, but what I've seen is that if I put them outside too early in the morning, before the sun has made it over the trees, they huddle and shiver. While I know intellectually that they are fine, my mother-heart shrinks from making them do that until they're bigger!

My biggest dilemma now is that I want to breed for disease resistance, and so I'm undecided what to do about my sick chickies. Should I let nature take its course and if they survive, then keep them and breed them? Or should I proactively cull every chick that shows symptoms, leaving me with perhaps two or three survivors to start a flock from? While I feel like the latter is the smarter move to make, I hesitates to take life without a very good reason, and until I get some more expert advice those sick chickies are still surviving.