How do you live with yourself eating the birds you raised?
- Thread starter missychicky
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I make stock by just putting the chicken, whole in a BIG pot, put some celery, coarse pepper and onion in, about two or three gallons of water in, and let it simmer away. After about 2-3 hours, I take the chicken out, check and see if I can pick the meat off the bone, and do that, bag the meat up for later and freeze, then take a few chops at the carcass with a butcher knife to open up some of the bone marrow. Back in the pot for another two hours at a simmer.
I then pour it through a colander lined with cheese cloth, and put the stock in the fridge to let the fat rise so I can skim it off. The stock gets portioned to baggies of one cup each, frozen flat, the rendered fat is put in a tub and kept in the fridge for use in cooking instead of butter where a super flavor boost would be good (mashed potatoes, yum yum!).
The older the bird, the more incredibly delicious the stock.
I make stock by just putting the chicken, whole in a BIG pot, put some celery, coarse pepper and onion in, about two or three gallons of water in, and let it simmer away. After about 2-3 hours, I take the chicken out, check and see if I can pick the meat off the bone, and do that, bag the meat up for later and freeze, then take a few chops at the carcass with a butcher knife to open up some of the bone marrow. Back in the pot for another two hours at a simmer.
I then pour it through a colander lined with cheese cloth, and put the stock in the fridge to let the fat rise so I can skim it off. The stock gets portioned to baggies of one cup each, frozen flat, the rendered fat is put in a tub and kept in the fridge for use in cooking instead of butter where a super flavor boost would be good (mashed potatoes, yum yum!).
The older the bird, the more incredibly delicious the stock.
Quote:
Actually we shouldn't HAVE to justify it, no more than you should have to justify keeping them as pets. No one is negating the fact that chickens are animals, beautiful and sometimes fun to keep around. That they are also considered a major food source in this country as well as others is a fact....something that you cannot negate just because you prefer them as pets.
I never asked you or any of the others to justify or defend how you can reconcile butchering and eating animals that you raised, food animals or other. My point was simply that regardless of the status of the animal, food animal, companion animal, or other, the complex relationships we develop with them are undeniable. The fact that we are even having this conversation is proof enough of that I would say. Calling something a food animal does not magically absolve someone of guilt nor justify the act. That's just a modern myth that we have fabricated.
The fact is we are omnivores with more "no kill" food options available than not and that can provide us with not only a healthier diet but also one that does not leave us wrestling with the moral dilemma of having to kill something to get food on our plate. Fore those who are not desensitized enough to understand this and have serious moral issues with it, I would tell them to drop the meat and focus their energies on eating right. It's better for them, the animals and the planet. Take it or leave it.
If you choose to come on this thread in an accusatory way, expect to get called on it. If you don't want trouble, don't start it. NO one said that you are "wrong" to choose to keep your chickens as pets, yet you implied that those of us who choose to eat them are wrong to do so: "The mere fact that some justify this based on the premise that they are food animals does not negate the fact that they are intelligent and sensitive" and then you swooped in for the kill by adding "...in some cases more so than those we call our pets". You have an elitist attitude and may feel free to go roll in the sand with your pets...you sound suspiciously like a troll...
BTW, Where do you come up with the "moral dilemma"? There is no moral dilemma. Animals were created by God, and he has blessed them to be used as food. He is the moral authority, so where's the dilemma? You are obviously a vegetarian, and think that everyone else should be too. I find it interesting that folks like you often say that others are not "tolerant" of differing beliefs, yet when the rubber meets the road you are far less tolerant than those you accuse.
Actually we shouldn't HAVE to justify it, no more than you should have to justify keeping them as pets. No one is negating the fact that chickens are animals, beautiful and sometimes fun to keep around. That they are also considered a major food source in this country as well as others is a fact....something that you cannot negate just because you prefer them as pets.
I never asked you or any of the others to justify or defend how you can reconcile butchering and eating animals that you raised, food animals or other. My point was simply that regardless of the status of the animal, food animal, companion animal, or other, the complex relationships we develop with them are undeniable. The fact that we are even having this conversation is proof enough of that I would say. Calling something a food animal does not magically absolve someone of guilt nor justify the act. That's just a modern myth that we have fabricated.
The fact is we are omnivores with more "no kill" food options available than not and that can provide us with not only a healthier diet but also one that does not leave us wrestling with the moral dilemma of having to kill something to get food on our plate. Fore those who are not desensitized enough to understand this and have serious moral issues with it, I would tell them to drop the meat and focus their energies on eating right. It's better for them, the animals and the planet. Take it or leave it.
If you choose to come on this thread in an accusatory way, expect to get called on it. If you don't want trouble, don't start it. NO one said that you are "wrong" to choose to keep your chickens as pets, yet you implied that those of us who choose to eat them are wrong to do so: "The mere fact that some justify this based on the premise that they are food animals does not negate the fact that they are intelligent and sensitive" and then you swooped in for the kill by adding "...in some cases more so than those we call our pets". You have an elitist attitude and may feel free to go roll in the sand with your pets...you sound suspiciously like a troll...
BTW, Where do you come up with the "moral dilemma"? There is no moral dilemma. Animals were created by God, and he has blessed them to be used as food. He is the moral authority, so where's the dilemma? You are obviously a vegetarian, and think that everyone else should be too. I find it interesting that folks like you often say that others are not "tolerant" of differing beliefs, yet when the rubber meets the road you are far less tolerant than those you accuse.
Quote:
I make stock by just putting the chicken, whole in a BIG pot, put some celery, coarse pepper and onion in, about two or three gallons of water in, and let it simmer away. After about 2-3 hours, I take the chicken out, check and see if I can pick the meat off the bone, and do that, bag the meat up for later and freeze, then take a few chops at the carcass with a butcher knife to open up some of the bone marrow. Back in the pot for another two hours at a simmer.
I then pour it through a colander lined with cheese cloth, and put the stock in the fridge to let the fat rise so I can skim it off. The stock gets portioned to baggies of one cup each, frozen flat, the rendered fat is put in a tub and kept in the fridge for use in cooking instead of butter where a super flavor boost would be good (mashed potatoes, yum yum!).
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/54632_stock.jpg
The older the bird, the more incredibly delicious the stock.
MMMMMmm!!!! YUM! I think I'll try that! Thanks for posting!
I make stock by just putting the chicken, whole in a BIG pot, put some celery, coarse pepper and onion in, about two or three gallons of water in, and let it simmer away. After about 2-3 hours, I take the chicken out, check and see if I can pick the meat off the bone, and do that, bag the meat up for later and freeze, then take a few chops at the carcass with a butcher knife to open up some of the bone marrow. Back in the pot for another two hours at a simmer.
I then pour it through a colander lined with cheese cloth, and put the stock in the fridge to let the fat rise so I can skim it off. The stock gets portioned to baggies of one cup each, frozen flat, the rendered fat is put in a tub and kept in the fridge for use in cooking instead of butter where a super flavor boost would be good (mashed potatoes, yum yum!).
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/54632_stock.jpg
The older the bird, the more incredibly delicious the stock.
MMMMMmm!!!! YUM! I think I'll try that! Thanks for posting!
- Sep 22, 2010
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- 22
Quote:
I never asked you or any of the others to justify or defend how you can reconcile butchering and eating animals that you raised, food animals or other. My point was simply that regardless of the status of the animal, food animal, companion animal, or other, the complex relationships we develop with them are undeniable. The fact that we are even having this conversation is proof enough of that I would say. Calling something a food animal does not magically absolve someone of guilt nor justify the act. That's just a modern myth that we have fabricated.
The fact is we are omnivores with more "no kill" food options available than not and that can provide us with not only a healthier diet but also one that does not leave us wrestling with the moral dilemma of having to kill something to get food on our plate. Fore those who are not desensitized enough to understand this and have serious moral issues with it, I would tell them to drop the meat and focus their energies on eating right. It's better for them, the animals and the planet. Take it or leave it.
In one sentence you state you aren't asking us to justify it and in the next you say it doesn't magically absolve us of guilt or justify the act. You are contradicting yourself. You also claim we are " desensitized" as you, as you claim, are not.
If you buy anything in the store to eat, meat or not, you are likely eating something that was fertilized by manure from a confined feeding operation farm. Like or not, something is dying for your meal. Those of us who choose to give our animals a quality life before we eat them find people like yourself to be seriously deluding yourself into thinking you are sensitive to animals, whereas we are not. By merely munching on your salads, you are contributing to and supporting the misery of thousands of animals. Your moral stand has feet of clay and you really need to step off your high horse....he is tired of being ridden and needs a rest.
Regardless of where one stands on the moral debate, I have to say you are truly wrong in your attempt to try to equate the impact of various non animal food products with those of animal products. If you look at peer-reviewed science that is not funded by animal agriculture what you will find is in fact a vast difference in impact between plant and animal production and vast differences in land use, water use, deforestation, energy consumption, pollution, climate-altering greenhouse gases, human health and animal welfare. I would encourage you to seek out the UN's Food and Agriculture Commission to get a non biased, global perspective on this if you have not. I think you will find a completely different reality than the one you are trying to pitch. I'm done with this discussion.
I never asked you or any of the others to justify or defend how you can reconcile butchering and eating animals that you raised, food animals or other. My point was simply that regardless of the status of the animal, food animal, companion animal, or other, the complex relationships we develop with them are undeniable. The fact that we are even having this conversation is proof enough of that I would say. Calling something a food animal does not magically absolve someone of guilt nor justify the act. That's just a modern myth that we have fabricated.
The fact is we are omnivores with more "no kill" food options available than not and that can provide us with not only a healthier diet but also one that does not leave us wrestling with the moral dilemma of having to kill something to get food on our plate. Fore those who are not desensitized enough to understand this and have serious moral issues with it, I would tell them to drop the meat and focus their energies on eating right. It's better for them, the animals and the planet. Take it or leave it.
In one sentence you state you aren't asking us to justify it and in the next you say it doesn't magically absolve us of guilt or justify the act. You are contradicting yourself. You also claim we are " desensitized" as you, as you claim, are not.
If you buy anything in the store to eat, meat or not, you are likely eating something that was fertilized by manure from a confined feeding operation farm. Like or not, something is dying for your meal. Those of us who choose to give our animals a quality life before we eat them find people like yourself to be seriously deluding yourself into thinking you are sensitive to animals, whereas we are not. By merely munching on your salads, you are contributing to and supporting the misery of thousands of animals. Your moral stand has feet of clay and you really need to step off your high horse....he is tired of being ridden and needs a rest.
Regardless of where one stands on the moral debate, I have to say you are truly wrong in your attempt to try to equate the impact of various non animal food products with those of animal products. If you look at peer-reviewed science that is not funded by animal agriculture what you will find is in fact a vast difference in impact between plant and animal production and vast differences in land use, water use, deforestation, energy consumption, pollution, climate-altering greenhouse gases, human health and animal welfare. I would encourage you to seek out the UN's Food and Agriculture Commission to get a non biased, global perspective on this if you have not. I think you will find a completely different reality than the one you are trying to pitch. I'm done with this discussion.
Quote:
What do you say to those of us that have tried to do what you have suggested, and found themselves very ill? After over a decade of vegetarianism, focusing on what I thought (so the books said) was a healthy well rounded diet, I was ill and depressed. It wasn't until I added meat back into my diet that my energy returned and my mental state became sane again.
I can't eat vegetarian! I need to eat meat to be healthy and I know others who have had the same experience, although I am glad it seems to work for some. I tried it for over ten years and it apparently doesn't work for everyone, certainly not me. That's why I look for options to provide meat and eggs that are outside the factory farm system.
What do you say to those of us that have tried to do what you have suggested, and found themselves very ill? After over a decade of vegetarianism, focusing on what I thought (so the books said) was a healthy well rounded diet, I was ill and depressed. It wasn't until I added meat back into my diet that my energy returned and my mental state became sane again.
I can't eat vegetarian! I need to eat meat to be healthy and I know others who have had the same experience, although I am glad it seems to work for some. I tried it for over ten years and it apparently doesn't work for everyone, certainly not me. That's why I look for options to provide meat and eggs that are outside the factory farm system.
Funny, all I'm finding about is the impact of COMMERCIAL meat production and it's impact on the environment....which is EXACTLY why folks like me and many on here choose to NOT support commercial meat whenever possible.
Now, I'm not naive enough to think that all large scale farming can go bye bye. That's folly and ridiculous.
I live in a ag based area - life revolves around corn, wheat and soybeans here. It's sheer folly to think that the processes involved in the ag community could 1) survive without animals (it would drive the cost of fertilization out of control and would drastically cut the demand for such products), and 2) could even start to return to a more sustainable style based on the demand for all of the corn, soy and wheat based non-animal products.
It takes a heap to feed the world, and it would not be possible without the link between animals and large farming operations, sucky but true.
A bankrupt farmer doesn't grow food for you and everyone else.
For me, I'm just cutting back what I can, and continue to purchase what I can't provide myself. One can't just cut all the strings out, but if everyone cut a little bit, then maybe someday we can all start the track back to sustainability.
As for me, I like the smell of cow poo being sprayed out - it's the smell of money being saved and money being made by folks I know.
Your "reality" may be reports and essays, mine is the smell of cow crap in the fields. My reality is a heck of a lot more solid....well, liquid.
Now, I'm not naive enough to think that all large scale farming can go bye bye. That's folly and ridiculous.
I live in a ag based area - life revolves around corn, wheat and soybeans here. It's sheer folly to think that the processes involved in the ag community could 1) survive without animals (it would drive the cost of fertilization out of control and would drastically cut the demand for such products), and 2) could even start to return to a more sustainable style based on the demand for all of the corn, soy and wheat based non-animal products.
It takes a heap to feed the world, and it would not be possible without the link between animals and large farming operations, sucky but true.
A bankrupt farmer doesn't grow food for you and everyone else.
For me, I'm just cutting back what I can, and continue to purchase what I can't provide myself. One can't just cut all the strings out, but if everyone cut a little bit, then maybe someday we can all start the track back to sustainability.
As for me, I like the smell of cow poo being sprayed out - it's the smell of money being saved and money being made by folks I know.
Your "reality" may be reports and essays, mine is the smell of cow crap in the fields. My reality is a heck of a lot more solid....well, liquid.
My wife calls me a murderer and won't eat the birds I've raised yet she will eat chicken from the supermarket. The way I see it, my birds have had a great life and a dignified death. At least they weren't hung from a conveyor belt and strung around on loud machinery on their way to a cold death. I slaughtered my first 5 a couple of months ago and I have 8 more coming due soon. The killing isn't a pleasant process but there is some satisfaction when you see the bird come out of the oven that the whole process was done under your watch.
I think it also gives you an appreciation for where your food comes from. So many people are detached from their food nowadays. Just because you didn't kill the animal yourself does not mean there is no blood on your hands. The only people who can say I'm wrong and mean it are vegans. Anyone else is just a hypocrite.
I think it also gives you an appreciation for where your food comes from. So many people are detached from their food nowadays. Just because you didn't kill the animal yourself does not mean there is no blood on your hands. The only people who can say I'm wrong and mean it are vegans. Anyone else is just a hypocrite.
- Sep 22, 2010
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- 22
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Agree with you and appreciate your perspective. But humor me for a minute. Consider this position: Our government subsidizes animal ag. That's why our ag system is so animal focused in my opinion. There currently is not enough acreage to grow enough fruit and veggies to allow everyone to have at least one serving per day. And yet there are millions upon millions of acres of corn for animal feed because that's what the USDA subsidizes and encourages farmers to grow. This is not a sustainable system. In the future we will run out of water and land sources and pollute to death what is already allocated to animal ag. This will drive up the cost of meat and dairy and people will begin to find other more cost effective and healthier alternatives. In fact, It's already happening. Much of the meat we buy in supermarkets today is coming from countries like Argentina and Brazil where American producers are deforesting the Amazon rainforest to grow corn to feed livestock because they see writing on the wall that says... the future of animal ag. in the US will become more regulated and complex, resources will dry up and better to be ahead of the eight ball than wait until its too late.
Agree with you and appreciate your perspective. But humor me for a minute. Consider this position: Our government subsidizes animal ag. That's why our ag system is so animal focused in my opinion. There currently is not enough acreage to grow enough fruit and veggies to allow everyone to have at least one serving per day. And yet there are millions upon millions of acres of corn for animal feed because that's what the USDA subsidizes and encourages farmers to grow. This is not a sustainable system. In the future we will run out of water and land sources and pollute to death what is already allocated to animal ag. This will drive up the cost of meat and dairy and people will begin to find other more cost effective and healthier alternatives. In fact, It's already happening. Much of the meat we buy in supermarkets today is coming from countries like Argentina and Brazil where American producers are deforesting the Amazon rainforest to grow corn to feed livestock because they see writing on the wall that says... the future of animal ag. in the US will become more regulated and complex, resources will dry up and better to be ahead of the eight ball than wait until its too late.
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