How to keep healthy breeding chickens???

[gojira]

Which studies and books? I can show you many studies and books that show corn in the layer ration in all phases of production. Here is one example: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...pe=pdf&usg=AFQjCNFcnwsfL1g53-oxyLvmYH-j4kN6Yw

I am not aware of any US egg producer that does not use corn in its laying rations. Their main concern is to optimize egg production, so if corn decreased egg production, they would not use it.

How does abdominal capacity influence luteinizing hormone and follicle stimulating hormone in poultry? I have not seen studies on that.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Which studies and books? I can show you many studies and books that show corn in the layer ration in all phases of production. Here is one example: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...pe=pdf&usg=AFQjCNFcnwsfL1g53-oxyLvmYH-j4kN6Yw

I am not aware of any US egg producer that does not use corn in its laying rations. Their main concern is to optimize egg production, so if corn decreased egg production, they would not use it.

How does abdominal capacity influence luteinizing hormone and follicle stimulating hormone in poultry? I have not seen studies on that.

I think it is meant as not to add scratch... most commercial feed are corn based of course.

However, though abdominal capacity may not effect hormone production... If you have a fat hen or person... there are more complications. Fat pressing on the internal organs such as lungs and heart. Any decrease in health will effect your egg production as well as the longevity of the animal.

http://www.the-chicken-chick.com/2013/12/chickens-obesity-silent-killer-how-to.html

https://hencam.com/henblog/2013/03/fat-hens-and-flock-health/

http://articles.extension.org/pages/69065/feeding-chickens-for-egg-production#.U5sYL3YuLO8

SO you can see, all those things say it's important to have a balanced diet and maintain a healthy weight.

 

[gojira]

I think it is meant as not to add scratch... most commercial feed are corn based of course.

However,  though abdominal capacity may not effect hormone production... If you have a fat hen or person... there are more complications. Fat pressing on the internal organs such as lungs and heart. Any decrease in health will effect your egg production as well as the longevity of the animal.

http://www.the-chicken-chick.com/2013/12/chickens-obesity-silent-killer-how-to.html

https://hencam.com/henblog/2013/03/fat-hens-and-flock-health/

http://articles.extension.org/pages/69065/feeding-chickens-for-egg-production#.U5sYL3YuLO8

SO you can see, all those things say it's important to have a balanced diet and maintain a healthy weight.

The original post said to never feed corn during the laying season. It did not say to not feed scratch.

You are going way off from the original post. It was said that fat keeps the abdominal walls from stretching. It does not. Birds deposit day differently than humans do. If the fat pad of a chicken presses on the lungs and heart, you have serious issues, and they are not feed related. Feeding corn does not adversely affect the health of a chicken, provided it is part of a balanced diet.

You picked some interesting sites. They don't seem to have anything to do with what was being discussed.

Regarding the chicken chick's page, It had nothing to do with productive egg layers. The most productive chickens love with several others in a small cage. Exercise is totally design to them, and had nothing to do with their productivity. The more active they Are, the less productive and less efficient they are. Many of the things she links to obesity occur in birds that are not obese. What is being overlooked is that a bird will eat to meet its energy requirements. If the nutrients in the feed are balanced with the energy content, a bird should not get obese. A lot of what she says here is her opinion, and not fact.

I do disagree with the extension paper. I have seen commercial feeds that were not balanced, and I have had birds with nutritional deficiencies from commercial feeds. The article mentions calcium, but phosphorus and vitamin D are also important.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

The original post said to never feed corn during the laying season. It did not say to not feed scratch.

You are going way off from the original post. It was said that fat keeps the abdominal walls from stretching. It does not. Birds deposit day differently than humans do. If the fat pad of a chicken presses on the lungs and heart, you have serious issues, and they are not feed related. Feeding corn does not adversely affect the health of a chicken, provided it is part of a balanced diet.

You picked some interesting sites. They don't seem to have anything to do with what was being discussed.

Regarding the chicken chick's page, It had nothing to do with productive egg layers. The most productive chickens love with several others in a small cage. Exercise is totally design to them, and had nothing to do with their productivity. The more active they Are, the less productive and less efficient they are. Many of the things she links to obesity occur in birds that are not obese. What is being overlooked is that a bird will eat to meet its energy requirements. If the nutrients in the feed are balanced with the energy content, a bird should not get obese. A lot of what she says here is her opinion, and not fact.

I do disagree with the extension paper. I have seen commercial feeds that were not balanced, and I have had birds with nutritional deficiencies from commercial feeds. The article mentions calcium, but phosphorus and vitamin D are also important.

Well, I will agree that it doesn't keep the ab walls from stretching, but rather stretches them to their limits so there is no room for anything else... Um know, I didn't go off topic, everything I posted was related to diet, even if you had to read down the page a bit. Yes some may be opinion... but some of it is real!

http://www.wattagnet.com/articles/14516-how-nutrition-affects-hatch-ability-in-broiler-breeders

Yes there is a certain amount of fat required to be able to produce eggs. Your body and brain must have fat in order to live. Some vitamins are fat soluble. But too much fat is bad across the board for fertility even in males. Most of the studies I could find were more related to supplements effecting weight and there by affecting fertility, mobility, and hatch-ability. And as much as we would like to think chickens will only eat to meet their energy needs, I'm gonna say hog wash! That would be true if their wasn't candy bars of corn laying around in front of them. But even with nutritious feed next to it... chickens love corn and scratch and will eat until it is gone. Maybe not true for people who are feeding more whole feed than processed feed. They eat to fill their crops... even if it's with styrofoam or cardboard. So if you are providing scratch corn on the side you are dumbing down the nutrients of your main feed while maintaining a high caloric content. A high calorie, no nutrient feed will not produce viable chicks, if even eggs for very long. Which by the way... is the point of this thread, producing healthy chicks.

Yes, birds in cages lay... that is a crazy argument. And decreased production because of activity is true for serious athletes who have too little body fat... maybe true for chickens, IDK... but I can guarantee you which is going to live the happier longer life. The rest of the body in the cage is suffering!

So what if someone made the mistake of saying never feed corn during lay season, it clearly wasn't meant for the commercial product. But a grammar Nazi or someone worried about proving something might pick out a certain word to stick on.... that's their choice. But it's better to take things in context and if it needs clearing up, why not do so in a friendly manner?

If you've seen commercial feeds that aren't balanced, please report them, so the rest of us aren't feeding our birds an inferior product that isn't what it claims to be. Whoever the organization is that regulates it would have a huge interest to know as well! Think AAFCO for dogs but not sure if it's the same for chicken feed, it's probably printed on the bags.

I agree, other nutrients are just as important as calcium.... It's unfortunate that we can rarely ever get an accurate picture from any one article.

And so many will grab a small detail and run with it while missing the big picture....

I agree that the key is BALANCE!

(and since I use commercial feed will likely always include some corn... but no extra corn scratch on my watch.) Also even doing "nutritious" treats can throw the balance off.

I can't even begin to tell you how many problems I see from people "spoiling" their chickens with treats. Goes all the way from not laying to death....

Again... we are in agreement, BALANCE is key.

Best wishes and happy breeding/hatching!

 

[gojira]

Well, I will agree that it doesn't keep the ab walls from stretching, but rather stretches them to their limits so there is no room for anything else...  Um know, I didn't go off topic, everything I posted was related to diet, even if you had to read down the page a bit. Yes some may be opinion... but some of it is real! 

http://www.wattagnet.com/articles/14516-how-nutrition-affects-hatch-ability-in-broiler-breeders

Yes there is a certain amount of fat required to be able to produce eggs. Your body and brain must have fat in order to live. Some vitamins are fat soluble. But too much fat is bad across the board for fertility even in males. Most of the studies I could find were more related to supplements effecting weight and there by affecting fertility, mobility, and hatch-ability. And as much as we would like to think chickens will only eat to meet their energy needs, I'm gonna say hog wash! That would be true if their wasn't candy bars of corn laying around in front of them. But even with nutritious feed next to it... chickens love corn and scratch and will eat until it is gone. Maybe not true for people who are feeding more whole feed than processed feed. They eat to fill their crops... even if it's with styrofoam or cardboard. So if you are providing scratch corn on the side you are dumbing down the nutrients of your main feed while maintaining a high caloric content. A high calorie, no nutrient feed will not produce viable chicks, if even eggs for very long. Which by the way... is the point of this thread, producing healthy chicks.    

Yes, birds in cages lay... that is a crazy argument. And decreased production because of activity is true for serious athletes who have too little body fat... maybe true for chickens, IDK... but I can guarantee you which is going to live the happier longer life. The rest of the body in the cage is suffering!

So what if someone made the mistake of saying never feed corn during lay season, it clearly wasn't meant for the commercial product. But a grammar Nazi or someone worried about proving something might pick out a certain word to stick on.... that's their choice. But it's better to take things in context and if it needs clearing up, why not do so in a friendly manner?  

If you've seen commercial feeds that aren't balanced, please report them, so the rest of us aren't feeding our birds an inferior product that isn't what it claims to be. Whoever the organization is that regulates it would have a huge interest to know as well! Think AAFCO for dogs but not sure if it's the same for chicken feed, it's probably printed on the bags.

I agree, other nutrients are just as important as calcium.... It's unfortunate that we can rarely ever get an accurate picture from any one article. :/   And so many will grab a small detail and run with it while missing the big picture....

I agree that the key is BALANCE!    (and since I use commercial feed will likely always include some corn... but no extra corn scratch on my watch.)  Also even doing "nutritious" treats can throw the balance off.

I can't even begin to tell you how many problems I see from people "spoiling" their chickens with treats. Goes all the way from not laying to death....

Again... we are in agreement, BALANCE is key.

Best wishes and happy breeding/hatching! 

Ok, so show me where on the pages you linked to that it mentions that corn should not be fed during the laying cycle because it makes an chicken day which keeps the abdominal walls from stretching which reduces egg production. Or show me where it mentions abdominal capacity affecting luteinizing hormone and follicle stimulating hormone. If you have a chicken that is so fat that it's abdomen is stretched to its limit so that there is no room for anything else, you have a serious problem. I have never seen that, and don't know anyone else who has seen that either.

Not sure who the author of the article is, but considering the incorrect terminology in places, it decreases the credibility of the author. Plus, layers and broiler breeders are different, and fertility and hatchability are not the same as egg production.

Do you mean too much dietary fat decreases fertility in males? Show me that study. Where is your degree in poultry nutrition from? I can try to find the study that shows that chickens eat to meet their energy requirements, provided the nutrients are included in the right proportions. If not, they eat to meet the limiting nutrients, unless they are not there in adequate quantities, then the decrease feed consumption. That is basic poultry nutrition. Chickens only eat to fill their crops if they are starved.

I did take things in context, and i asked for clarification. Then, you felt the need to jump in and post irrelevant pages.

Some authors are thorough when they write. I was simply pointing out a shortcoming about the page. I know many articles that are self explanatory.

If you want to learn about nutrition, ask questions. People can be easily misled by posting opinions.

 

[3riverschick]

Which studies and books? I can show you many studies and books that show corn in the layer ration in all phases of production. Here is one example: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...pe=pdf&usg=AFQjCNFcnwsfL1g53-oxyLvmYH-j4kN6Yw

I am not aware of any US egg producer that does not use corn in its laying rations. Their main concern is to optimize egg production, so if corn decreased egg production, they would not use it.

How does abdominal capacity influence luteinizing hormone and follicle stimulating hormone in poultry? I have not seen studies on that.

Hi,
No, I won't spoon feed it to you. With all respect, go look it up yourself. It's all out there in google books advanced search engine.I think you'll learn more if you look it up yourself like I did. I have surely found it to be true for myself.
Best Regards,
Karen.

 

[gojira]

Hi,

​No, I won't spoon feed it to you.  With all respect, go look it up yourself. It's all out there in google books advanced search engine.I think you'll learn more if you look it up yourself like I did. I have surely found it to be true for myself.
 Best Regards,
 Karen.

You were the one that made the statements. I was simply asking for proof. You usually provide links for others. It makes me wonder if the studies exist. I can find articles that disagree, and I have experience that shows otherwise. How have you found it to be true? How many birds have you experienced this with? Thousands? What was their average production? Are you talking about articles from the 1920's that are based on guesses? I have seen them. Much has been learned since then. In case it matters, I did a lot of research before computers and used card catalogs, so I am not averse to looking things up.

 

[3riverschick]

I just do not wish to go down this road of nitpicking everything I write. The studies and info are out there.
I am sure you will find them interesting. I am done with this conversation and wish you best success,
Karen