Interesting article regarding commercially raised meat chickens in US

[bigredfeather]

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I disagree with this. As a producer of less than 1000 birds per year, I am not required to be inspected, therefore I am not confined to guidelines. You can look it up. Goodluck attempting to find any bacteria in my processing area. When I am done processing, I steam everything down and let the SSTL butchering table sit out in the sun for at least one day. If they could prove it was my fault, I agree there would be some repercutions, but I doubt anybody could ever prove anything. Tattoo parlors are a different animal. They are not dealing with food. They are under the wrath of the Health Department.

 

[Brunty_Farms]

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I understand what your talking about... but that's just not the case with backyard poultry. Most birds develop a very good immunity to the common bacteria and viruses. I'm talking about the two major ones in feces that can kill you. However neither are present when raised on pasture, the cycle can never be complete. Salatin had birds fecal matter tested on his farm with swabbing on the chicken and the feces... neither bacteria was present.

Name one case that someone was sick over a pastured poultry... it's not just luck... thousands of producers are producing hundreds of thousands of birds annually. The number is increasing every year. That's having faith in nature and being very educated in what we do.... their is no knick of the intestines.... it just doesn't happen when you are very experienced.

No liability issues... I have insurance... get tested for my tables and utensils... no processor present, don't sell enough birds yet to need one. That's mandated by my states rules they said I don't need one until I hit 20,000 or want to sell over state lines... it's sanitary when done at a small level... they even know it. It gets out of hand when you do a million chickens a day, which is why they have inspectors.

 

[bigredfeather]

I'll tell you what. There are more information packed, two sided threads that occur in this section than on any of the other topics on this forum. I think it's great! A lot of things can be discussed that can enlighten people, and shed light on gray topics such as this.

 

[Brunty_Farms]

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Jail time comes into play when someone intentionally disregards safe food handling... Accidental contamination would result in a big lawsuit though. Selling to the public without inspection and following safe guidelines would be considered intent IMHO and would land a person in jail should someone get ill and it is traced back to them.

Sorry... but that's just not the case. Again, prove one case.... just one... where pastured poultry have even been accused for it? If it's so dirty there would be hundreds of claims... so you shouldn't have a hard time on google finding one.

 

[WalkingWolf]

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That's a sad statement. The problem is we can't see it... and either can the workers... but it does happen. If it didn't happen, there would be no need for chlorine. If I can't see the farm or the processing of the birds, I'm not going to buy their product.

I could call up any big chicken plant and ask for a live tour... my request would be denied. Why? What's to hide?

I do take offense to your statement... my chickens are night and day to the ones you have been eating. Do you not process your own? I'm offended because I take great pride in what I do... I do everything in my power to make a better lifestyle for my chicken, workers/helpers, and to have a CLEANER way of processing. Have you seen any dirty pasture poultry producers shop? Not a back yard set up but someone that does it for business? Very clean, and very organized. We have to be, because we are customer inspected, far greater than any organization than the government. People can use common sense on the farms that they visit, they can't on the ones the can not see.

First I did not name you in any way... Second I have the right to buy chickens from who ever I please and set the standards of quality. If you are offended you should think how accusations that are leveled against others without any proof whatsoever are taken. I am offended anytime someone is besmirched with so little regard for the truth.

Yes I process my own chicken, yes I use chlorine in that process, for both sanitation of knives, blocks, and yes a final dunk before the chicken is bagged and stored. Are you inspected? And by whom? Do you have a health department grade? Have you taken the required safe serv training, and testing? Do you submit swabs for testing? Do you carry liability insurance for your business?

I have taken live tours of plants, this was before I owned poultry myself, now I would be refused. I provided security services for several plants, part of those services was a inspection of the plants during operation. They take sanitation and bio security very seriously. I do not know where you get your information as you already admitted you do not have first hand information. Please if you have a source, let's hear it.

Please do not turn this into a me against you debate, I have my opinions you have yours. You have to take responsibility for your life just as I do mine. And again I do not believe that Putin's decision had anything at all to do with the safety of chicken.

 

[Brunty_Farms]

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I would agree all of these things are possible during home processing, but even if a home processed bird where to become contaminated, that doesn't mean someone is going to get sick. Proper cooking will kill any contamination. Despite fecal factories using things to eliminate contamination, they can still be contaminated. I have read several Consumer Reports that give the stats on grocery store birds that are highly contaminated with salmonella and campylobacter, despite the safeguards you say we lack at home. So if this is the case, what's the difference?

Amen brother! LOL....

 

[CARS]

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Who is getting sick?? Back to the original post, haven't we debated that chlorine rinse is off the bird by packaging??? I thought we covered that during my birine/chlorine comparison.

Now if you are talking about the birds themselves you would be wrong too. I'm pretty sure at times most of us have more birds than the recommended square footage. It doesn't matter if they have 1000 birds in 2000 square feet or I have 10 in 20 square feet. I guess I am just a small sized fecal farm

 

[Brunty_Farms]

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Make sure you cook it to the proper temperature, but you see a backyard processor cannot control how the purchaser cooks their food, they are liable if the food causes illness if they cannot prove they used proper sanitation.

Confucius say "a fool and his money soon part ways" and also "there is a lawyer for every fool"

Edited to add that this is the main reason I will not process a bird for sale, even using proper sanitation. I get $10 to 15$ per bird unprocessed to the local Hispanics, and that is for roosters... LOL Actually I get more for roosters than I do hens. I get $15 to $25 for duck drakes unprocessed. A neighbor gets $400 to $600 for unprocessed bulls, I have another neighbor that sells them unprocessed goats, but I am not sure what they get. If I had the time and space I would market live rabbits to them, I have been asked for other meats that they like from their countries but do not have a cheap source, such as Iguanas and snakes. I can get good prices for live raccoons if I can catch them.

See the things is... there are no worries. I will like the carcass of one of my birds to prove to you how clean the birds really are. That's passion for what I do....

I think you forget the biggest thing.... customers that support our business... share the same passion for local food and local farms. They are no fools....

 

[WalkingWolf]

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Jail time comes into play when someone intentionally disregards safe food handling... Accidental contamination would result in a big lawsuit though. Selling to the public without inspection and following safe guidelines would be considered intent IMHO and would land a person in jail should someone get ill and it is traced back to them.

Sorry... but that's just not the case. Again, prove one case.... just one... where pastured poultry have even been accused for it? If it's so dirty there would be hundreds of claims... so you shouldn't have a hard time on google finding one.

I already gave you a case, no I am not going to bring someone else into this that is not a member. This was for a infection after a tattoo on a minor, but with consent. The infection was not traced back to the man giving the tattoo, but he did not follow guidelines, and he was not licensed or inspected. His sentence was one day short of a year, and banned from doing the art of tattooing for the rest of his life, plea agreement to avoid a felony. I arrested him, nice guy, but the law is the law. Shame is he was a fantastic talented artist.

BTW again if you have some proof as to your claims could you present them?

 

[Brunty_Farms]

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That would be an intersting court case. You're right, a home processor, or insert factory farm name here, can't control that. They also can't control how a customer handles their chicken after purchase. If someone leaves one of my birds in a hot car for several hours after they buy it, then eat it, and they get sick. Does that mean it's my fault they got sick? I think not. Can a court prove it was unsanitary processing, no. Can they prove it was because it was of improper handling, no. My point being, there is more than one way a bird can become contamined, and it isn't always the fault of the butchering process and it is hard to prove who is at fault.

If you are not being inspected, and you clearly cannot prove you followed guidelines, and if the bacteria can be found on your processing area, you are screwed even if it is the other persons fault. At the very least the fines would be immense, a person would probably be banned from poultry for public consumption forever, and financially ruined. This has happened several times with tattoo parlors, without diminutive proof that infection came from the parlor. And yes one time jail time was incurred by a artist operating out of his house without proper documentation, one day short of a year in county jail.

If a persons wealth and freedom are not that important, go for it. I personally like to keep my money and freedom. BTW I still think Putin's decision had nothing to do with the safety of the chicken.

No, I'm sorry but your not. Especially if it was just salmonella...