International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[wrathsfarm]

Ok, thanks! I just want whichever one will be more correct looking. I don't have a rooster or anything. Just hope she lays dark-ish eggs! I'd love to breed them in the future.

That wasn't to say they may both turn out good or bad. Just something to follow and take notes on as they develop.
I had a little man that hatched last year with a copper head spot, which is a sign of purity. Had high hopes for him but developed a deformity lump on his back and he was culled.

I'm also still learning all this, so see what others have to offer. We're talking comparing SOP standard with hatchery quality here so possibilities are endless, but my OG 5 BCMs came from hatchery stock 4 years ago and been working with them serious the last 2 years with lots of help from my friends here.

 

[Island Coppers]

MGG,​

What wrathsfarm said. I have 22 BCM chicks and I would love to have known what they will look like sooner. They are a month old yesterday and it's still almost impossible to guess what they might look like at maturity. It's only now that I think I can say which are males. Best of luck with your chicks.

​

 

[Tstraub]

I agree with the others and would like to add that the whole purpose of breeding is breeding for improvement. You can’t always say one hen is better or worse than the other unless you know what rooster you’re putting over them. It’s common to use an over colored rooster to “fix” the offspring of an under colored hen. Over feathered shanks can improve under feathered shanks. The best of show type of bird isn’t always the best choice to breed. It’s all about finding a balance and working with what you have.

I’m still in the learning stage with very little real world experience but learning something new every day.

 

[Island Coppers]

I am curious to know if anyone breeding BCM's have tried to breed toward a redder color dark egg. Many folks seem to use BCM's in crosses to produce green eggs so if they started with really red genes that would allow for brighter color of green. Perhaps someone could point me to any post or thread where BMC's are being breed for red or purple egg color. I am familiar with the SOP.

 

[Tstraub]

I am curious to know if anyone breeding BCM's have tried to breed toward a redder color dark egg. Many folks seem to use BCM's in crosses to produce green eggs so if they started with really red genes that would allow for brighter color of green.

The SOP calls for dark rich brown. Many people have tried breeding for more purple or red eggs but from what I have seen they usually lose the bird in the hunt for the egg. They often sacrifice body type, and/or overall health because they focus too hard on the egg. I’m sure it’s possible, given enough time you can breed almost anything in or out of a chicken

 

[Bantambird]

My only contribution is to look out for overly feathered shanks. While the darker one is a better down color, he also has middle toe feathering, while it appears the lighter one does not. You will have a better idea of their appearance as they get older. You will need age on these chicks for better critique.

 

[wrathsfarm]

I am curious to know if anyone breeding BCM's have tried to breed toward a redder color dark egg. Many folks seem to use BCM's in crosses to produce green eggs so if they started with really red genes that would allow for brighter color of green. Perhaps someone could point me to any post or thread where BMC's are being breed for red or purple egg color. I am familiar with the SOP.

Your eggs are gorgeous. Knowing what color egg your males come from and back crossing to the males will darken future progeny.
If I'm mistaking your question, I apologize.
I keep posting these because they are F2s from Jessie who is Joannie's daughter. Joannie is my darkest layer but her eggs have gotten more dark speckled in her age. I made the mistake of selling Jessie last fall when I had my heart attack but was smart enough to have some of her eggs to throw in the incubator. So happy I did....

My problem came from focusing too much on egg color when hatching where I want my birds to be more SOP. So I needed to back of egg color and get the faults fixed first. Fortunately I've had a lot of help here and got a few nice birds to move forward and getting some darker eggs at the same time.

 

[Island Coppers]

wrathsfarm,​

Breeding for redder colored eggs is not something I plan on doing. Doesn't keep me from wondering if it's possible and if anyone has tried it. I haven't seen any threads on BYC about that specific breeding goal.

For now the focus will be on the SOP for BCM's. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't happen to select some rather red shaded eggs if they came from the right parents.

My curiosity stems from liking the most unusual colors and more spotted eggs. Like your Joannie's eggs with that really rich color.

 

[Tstraub]

I have done a lot of reading and a little bit of breeding for egg color. The blue egg gene is easy it’s a single gene that changes white eggs to blue or brown to green. You can see if the girls carry the gene by the color of her eggs. Roosters can be test bread to know hens and observe eggs of their daughters or a simple DNA test can check for the gene if your time means more to you than your money.

Brown eggs are more difficult somewhere between 8 and 13 genes are thought to influence the depth of color. Trying to change those genes without losing all of the traits that make a Marans a Marans is very difficult and time consuming. Egg color is a perfectly valid thing to chase if you really want to but it would involve hatching and raising thousands of chicks over several generations or a whole lot of good luck to make real progress.

 

[wrathsfarm]

I have done a lot of reading and a little bit of breeding for egg color. The blue egg gene is easy it’s a single gene that changes white eggs to blue or brown to green. You can see if the girls carry the gene by the color of her eggs. Roosters can be test bread to know hens and observe eggs of their daughters or a simple DNA test can check for the gene if your time means more to you than your money.

Brown eggs are more difficult somewhere between 8 and 13 genes are thought to influence the depth of color. Trying to change those genes without losing all of the traits that make a Marans a Marans is very difficult and time consuming. Egg color is a perfectly valid thing to chase if you really want to but it would involve hatching and raising thousands of chicks over several generations or a whole lot of good luck to make real progress.

And from my understanding of things I've picked up, breeding to SOP and getting hens to lay 9s on the color chart is a super rare feat. This is why there's two groups of breeders. Breeders to SOP and Breeder strictly for the 9s, heavy bloom purples and huge splotches.
To make it even that much harder @Chooks man has explained it's just not easy enough when you get them 9s to breed 9s to 9s as you'll lose the color. I don't know the full reasoning or explanation of it but your best breeding is 9s to 7-8s to keep the 9s color.

If it was easy we would all have SOP stock that lays 9s.

As much as I'd love to have them super dark eggs I want nice correct birds first and foremost and hopefully someday the color will get there.