Ivermectin

[PouleChick]

Hi, I'm currently trying to deal with a SLM problem (my own fault for buying Silkies with it when I was a total ignoramus then not recognising it for along time, then thinking it had got better then realising it hadn't) in my flock of chooks - half of whom have feathered legs or lots of fluff (my lovely Orps). After reading the huge SLM thread on here and lots of other shorter ones as well I decided to go with the Vaseline option (with a tiny amount of Tea Tree Oil), I also wanted to try Castor Oil but not easy to find here. After treating my 2 Silkies I was very impressed with how good they looked after only 1 treatment 2 weeks ago and hoping that the 2nd one I did yesterday will eliminate the issue (or all but). However after doing 7 of them yesterday with a soak in olive oil soapy water and then the Vaseline I feel like I'm goign to be a fighting a loosing battle getting through all 18 of them (although we need to send a few roos to freezer camp so i think we are going to do that asap which will reduce the burden of the process).

As a result I have started rethinking ivermectin and have started doing some reading. I know there are a good few people on here who use it. I have also read on here that you should bin eggs for 3 weeks or something but not yet come across anything saying if this is the case and for what reasons. I thought I'd put down my thoughts while I'm making my decision and see what you all think too.

I know isn't necessarily all great research from Wikipedia but the article on it seems quite good and most of the points are referenced to studies (I've not yet done any further reading from the list although I did speed read a couple of French articles earlier). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin
I'm starting to come to the conclusion that I am happy to not bin the eggs. It is now (although not in the beginning) a human drug as well as an animal one. Has the binning the egg thing come from before it was recognised as a safe drug for humans? Here are some interesting snippets from the article:

• It is on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines, the most effective and safe medicines needed in a health system.[8]
• Ivermectin can be given by mouth, topically, or via injection. It does not readily cross the blood–brain barrier of mammals due to the presence of P-glycoprotein,[46]
• Contraindications
  Ivermectin is contraindicated in children under the age of five, or those who weigh less than 15 kilograms (33 pounds)[29] and those who are breastfeeding, and have a liver or kidney disease.[42

I won't be giving my 4 year old any eggs in the 3 week period (even though he does weigh over 15kg and obviously if any even gets into the eggs it would be at very tiny amounts) - he can have the ones kept from before treatment. I also won't sell any to the neighbours but other than that I cna't see that in the tiny doses they will be getting that really it will do very much at all.

I am looking at doing this as a once off to get on top of my SLM problem rather than it carrying on for months more, to then in future be much more vigilant in checking thier feet and slapping on preventative Vaseline occasionally.

What do you all think?

 

[Kris5902]

Sounds like a good plan to me. I don’t have a vet that will deal with chickens in my area and I can’t get my hands on the ivermectin without a prescription... I would like to go with the injectable for oral use rather than the pour on stuff. But that’s where things stand in my country/area for vet access and veterinary drug restrictions now... If I don’t make decent headway with the Vaseline treatments I’m giving the flock I might break down and see if I can scavenge some of the cattle pour on we had from a year or so ago. Best of luck!

 

[PouleChick]

I don’t have a vet that will deal with chickens in my area and I can’t get my hands on the ivermectin without a prescription... I would like to go with the injectable for oral use rather than the pour on stuff.

I havent' got as far as trying to source it yet so not sure how I can get it here. Next step I suppose!

 

[Shadrach]

Ivermectin is not licensed for use on chickens.
You are in breach of the NOAH recommendations and can be prosecuted for advertising this product.
https://www.noah.co.uk/focus-areas/promotion-of-animal-medicines/
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/advertise-veterinary-medicines-legally

Now I know people use it and I know it can be purchased.
It may be very effective but it is classified as a drug and as such, falls under the laws that apply to drugs for veterinary use.
People can make their own mind up about whether to use it or not but to comply with NOAH you can't advertise it, which this thread is doing.
It may well be nonsense but many regulations are.

 

[perchie.girl]

Most feed stores in the US sell Ivermectin for use on horses or cattle. And yes it is off lable for chickens... But I have used it for my goats following dosages for goats on other sites. Of course my horse....

Its pretty benign... Talk to @casportpony about dosages for chickens. She has done tons of research on the subject ...

I used Vasaline for leg mites in my flock.... But its very difficult to use for Other kinds of mites.

When you are out sixty miles into the desert a vet call is prohibitive... YOu get good at treating your animals from Antibiotic injections to Worming treatments... There are medications specifically for Chickens and goats etc but when i find a single source that will work for each I would rather have one on hand....

Cathy also has a thread about first aid kits Very useful information.

deb

 

[PouleChick]

People can make their own mind up about whether to use it or not but to comply with NOAH you can't advertise it, which this thread is doing.
It may well be nonsense but many regulations are.

I didn't think I was advertising it - just wanted to discuss it and see what people thought Happy for mods to delete.

 

[PouleChick]

Ivermectin is not licensed for use on chickens.

And I'd forgotten that!

I used Vasaline for leg mites in my flock.... But its very difficult to use for Other kinds of mites.

It's only leg mites I have for the moment thank goodness!

 

[Shadrach]

It's an interesting problem with International sites. Certain drugs and activities may be legal in one country but not another.
I very much doubt that BYC would be prosecuted for advertising this product.
It doesn't really matter what you, or I, or anyone else may think, technically promotion of this product contravenes the UK regulations and may do so in other countries.
Part of the reason for setting up NOAH and other regulatory bodies is to stop unqualified 'experts' from promoting animal husbandry techniques and drugs that are not officially endorsed and may prove harmful to the animal, and in the case of products from that animal for human consumption, harmful to humans.

 

[Kris5902]

It's an interesting problem with International sites. Certain drugs and activities may be legal in one country but not another.
I very much doubt that BYC would be prosecuted for advertising this product.
It doesn't really matter what you, or I, or anyone else may think, technically promotion of this product contravenes the UK regulations and may do so in other countries.
Part of the reason for setting up NOAH and other regulatory bodies is to stop unqualified 'experts' from promoting animal husbandry techniques and drugs that are not officially endorsed and may prove harmful to the animal, and in the case of products from that animal for human consumption, harmful to humans.

I wouldn’t necessarily say that discussing the use of a product... even off label use of it, qualifies as advertising it. Unless @PouleChick is somehow affiliated or employed by the company, purporting to be a veterinarian, promoting it using advertisements, or offering it for sale. I know laws regarding food safety, treatment of livestock, and such vary greatly amongst all our different countries. Ivermectin was available up until last year without a prescription here... at least to Farms. I think there’s a big difference between discussing the use of something and actively promoting it.

 

[perchie.girl]

There are a couple of organic sources for Mites in the coop.....
Neem Oil if you can find it ....
Orange Oil....

There has Been alot of discussion pro and con for Diatomaceous Earth... or DE. I was pro for a very long time... Still am in certain applications. BUT here is what flipped me over... It is a hazard to the lungs...

Pyrethrins are used in Birds in General... They can be found in Flea Spray, Garden Spray, Bird spray.... Also for livestock.... They are an insecticide and a larvacide.

But... Ivermectin is Readily absorbed through the skin... and dosages are small. Relatively. Not only does it treat chewing insects... But it also treats many worms including intramuscular worms.

Remember Treatment of the coop should be done Twice... Once initially and again in about ten days when the eggs of the mites hatch. Strip out all bedding and throw it away or if you can burn it. Then treat the Coop and pay attention to all cracks and places where you see gaps between wood. Some mites hide in there during the day and come out to feed at night...

Leg mites are different. last time I dealt with them was before I had an internet resource... Ivermectin may not be a good choice for them.

deb