Just changed to a raw meat....

[GD91]

Keep in mind that a wet home cooked food has a lot more water in it compared to a dry diet and so you have to consider what the nutrient values of the two are and if they are or are not comparable. Imagine how much mass and weight your dry food would be if you poured a cup of water over it and let it soak in! Compare that to what you are feeding now size and weight wise and you may see why they may still feel hungry.

Having said that, you could try using potatoes (even sweet potatoes) as a good filler, but in general if they are not loosing a lot of weight over the next month or four despite healthy exercise they should be fine and are probably just greedy.

No, they are not losing weight, I had to diet them a bit because, in fact, at one point they began gaining weight & yep, I've been feeding potatoes sparingly... guess they are just greedy!

Soaked dog food is incredible heavy! At least the dogs aren't gulping loads of water these days to.

 

[GD91]

As someone who has fed raw to her dogs for nearly 8 years, and is a HUGE raw supporter... The diet your dogs are eating concerns me. I noticed in your last post you mentioned the dogs are eating cooked bones, which is a HUGE no-no. Cooked bones of any type should never be given for any reason.

I also notice you're feeding mostly boneless meat and bacon. Bacon is very fatty and not very nutritious. Pork is also harder for dogs to digest. The high fat content and not starting on chicken is probably why your Staffy is having diarrhea. It is recommended to start on an easy meat like chicken to avoid digestive upset. Further, I haven't really seen any organs mentioned. Organs should make up 10% of the diet, with 5% of it being liver and the other 5% things like kidney, pancreas, or spleen. Hearts, tripe, and gizzards do not count as organs in a raw diet. They count as nutrient dense muscle meat.

You are also supplementing with calcium powder, which is going to throw off their calcium/phosphorus ratio if they are eating bones. Calcium powder is also usually calcium carbonate, which is different than the calcium found in raw bone and lowers the acidity of the stomach, which poorly affects digestion. Even powdered bone meal usually is calcium carbonate.

If you choose to add vegetables, remember that dogs cannot break down the cellulose walls of plants. Veg/fruit needs to be pureed or steamed in order for dogs to access the nutrients. Dark green leafy vegetables are the best nutrient wise, but keep in mind that cruciferous vegetables like kale, broccoli, bok choy, cauliflower, etc. can negatively affect the thyroid if fed over long periods of time. Nightshade vegetables like beets, collard, parsley, spinach, white potatoes and Swiss chard are high in oxalic acid and can cause calcium depletion and kidney stones over time. Greens should always be rotated and fed sparingly.

You should really visit http://preymodelraw.com/page/articl...get-started-feeding-a-prey-model-raw-diet-r19

That is a guide on how to properly feed and transition into a raw diet. The diet you are feeding your dogs may work for now, but over time you will see the effects of nutrient deficiency.

So this post has got me wondering.... how the hell do Vegans feed their dogs Vegan diets with lots of vegetation?

Anyone able to enlighten me on this?

 

[donrae]

So this post has got me wondering.... how the hell do Vegans feed their dogs Vegan diets with lots of vegetation?

Anyone able to enlighten me on this?

I imagine lots of cheap dog food is already pretty close to vegetarian, being mostly corn. It's probably not much of a stretch to make the diet totally veggie, if not vegan.

Then again, I'm not sure how a vegan could ever think it's natural for a carnivore to be vegan. I can see the debate on a human's ideal diet, but I don't think anyone with any sense thinks dogs don't eat meat.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

Some people actually try to feet cats who are obligate carnivores vegan diets. It's just bad juju for everyone. SOME dogs/cats do "O.K." on it, some even thrive... But some PEOPLE thrive on diets of mostly bacon, eggs and hamburger so it's not really a good indicator. I would recommend vegan diets for dogs about as readily as carnivore diets for humans. Even if I eat meat, I know I am an omnivore.

 

[GD91]

I agree with you both, I mean.... when you look at a dogs teeth, its clear that they are designed to eat a diet consisting of mainly meat.

I know my dogs would probably give me the "Ugh, mum, what the hell is this?!? Vegetables, gross!" look if I served them a vegan dog diet. My rottweiler is really fussy, I have to hide her vegetables as it is, otherwise she picks them out of her dinner & drops them on the floor.

The similarities between dogs & small children are amazing.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

Today I butchered rabbits and left the scraps (good organs, skulls feet and tails) out for the dogs. I called them out and the first thing before peeing my husky ran up, desperately grabbed two hind rabbit feet in the same bite, carried them off and held them in her mouth while she peed and pood, then ran into a corner of the lawn to eat them.... Big dog started after the feet until she found the hearts and lungs in the snow! She is food aggressive but did not even care when our little bitty husky ran over, snatched a rabbit skull from near by and proceeded to run circles around the lawn with it in sheer joy! Watching these dogs eat whole rabbit heads, skulls, brains, fur, eyes, ears and all with SO much joy... Well there is no mistaking them for peaceful vegans.

Once they ate their fill a rabbit skull became a toy to play with and cause them to chase eachother around the lawn. No commercial dog food tonight or tomorrow morning. In the morning they will get to clean up the leftover frozen rabbit skulls and will each get an egg. This is just how my dogs eat sometimes. Right now they are sleeping peacefully without even a single fart or burp to their names unlike most nights when they eat commercial feed (even grain free).

 

[swimM4r]

Im thinking about getting into supplementing raw meats int o my dogs diets. The garbage i am feeding them now is showing. The dog in my pic is really starting to slow down a lot and not because of age ( he's 4). I know its the food. The high drive dog he is should be obvious until age 12 or 13. Ive given him raw meat before but his stomach isnt used to breaking down those enzymes or whatever so i will have to ween him off of it otherwise his bowel movements are of the liquid variety. Any suggestions on type of meat and serving ratios (meat vs. store brand garbage)?

 

[GD91]

Im thinking about getting into supplementing raw meats int o my dogs diets. The garbage i am feeding them now is showing. The dog in my pic is really starting to slow down a lot and not because of age ( he's 4). I know its the food. The high drive dog he is should be obvious until age 12 or 13. Ive given him raw meat before but his stomach isnt used to breaking down those enzymes or whatever so i will have to ween him off of it otherwise his bowel movements are of the liquid variety. Any suggestions on type of meat and serving ratios (meat vs. store brand garbage)?

I love GSD's!

I found my dogs will just eat & eat homecooked food or raw. I'm feeding the same amount as what I was dog food, cutting it back if they start gaining weight.

Lots of people have posted here about diet. My staffy was also slowing down (aged 5) but since I switched, she's bouncing back.

Just don't feed cooked with raw.

Also dogs also go through a "detox" period sometimes, Google it & read the results. Sometimes it can get nasty, so its best to know & inform a vet of anything serious.

My dogs expelled a lot of mucus in their poo, it gradually slowed & then stopped after a month. Also my dogs were sick on 3 occasions & had occasional bouts of diarrhea which cleared up, again, after the first month. They also shedded a lot of hair.

I was quite shocked.

 

[swimM4r]

good to know GD91. I figured there would be time that they adapt to the raw meat. Do you give them veggies/fruit too? How about bones, I know cooked bones are a hazard because they can splinter causing intestinal bleeding but raw doesnt. (according to google). I'm starting his new diet in march so i guess ill have my work cut out for me. So no raw meat and coked at the same time. So probably no breaking him in with normal food and a raw egg cracked on top of it?

 

[Chickerdoodle13]

I posted some stuff earlier in this thread, so I'll try not to repeat myself too much. You can go back and read the beginning of the thread, as there is some good info.

My best advice, is research, research, research. Talk to people who feed raw, to your vet , and anyone else who will let you pick their brains. Feeding raw is not easy and not (usually) cheap. Despite the bad rap formulated dog foods get, many of them are fairly well balanced. I usually recommend owners first look into switching food brands first before going raw. There are just a lot of variables when feeding raw, and its rare people are able to get it right. So it is fairly often that we see dogs (and cats) switched over to raw at the animal hospital for one thing or another. This is why so many vets are against feeding raw, and it is important to take their opinions seriously. Having to put down a dog for something totally preventable through education is just a real shame. (Don't even get me started on vegetarian and vegan cats!)

Salmonella is a big concern when feeding raw. It can be transmitted between species and can be a problem if you have small children or immunocompromised people/pets around. I just did radiographs on a dog with salmonella, so even they can be afflicted by it. It is an easy thing to treat, but can occasionally cause complications more serious.

You also have to be careful about feeding foods high in fat. High fat diets can cause pancreatic damage. I just read a study about chicken diets for zoo dog and cat species like wolves and ocelots. They found the diets to be extremely high in fat (who knew chicken could be so high in fat!) and it is causing obesity and organ damage in a lot of zoo animals. The data I was reading was related to breeding difficulties in exotic species, and obesity due to high fat diets is one issue. (Actually, I've found studying zoo diets to be very interesting, and very pertinent to raw feeding of pet dogs. Maybe something to look into)

Raw bones may not necessarily splinter like cooked bones, but they can still perforate the gut. So you definitely have to be careful and supervise the animal with bones. This occurs frequently with animals who are not used to eating raw bones.

I have found a lot of information about raw diets on the internet to be very biased and less factual, so keep that in mind when doing research. Try to gather facts and look at the pros-cons. Then decide if this route might work for you.