Lavender-Based Leghorn Breeding & Improvement Discussion

[The Moonshiner]

Duckwing is duckwing. Then you can do things to modify it. Of course mentioned is silver and gold. We'll just stick to the gold for now.

To just modify the gold tones you can add mahogany. Gold duckwing plus mahogany is what welsummer are.

Then of course you could go with something like cream if you want to lighten it. Gold DW plus cream is what legbars are.

Then of course you can go with silver and eliminate all the gold tones.

But then you have to ask yourself is it worth it?
Sure it's neat to tweak the tones but you have to bring in the genes from somewhere and the somewhere is also gonna bring in a lot of genes you don't want so then you'll have to breed to maintain certain genes and eliminate others. That can take some time and lots and lots of chicks.

 

[The Moonshiner]

If you just want mahogany introduced to yours then yes you can cross to dk browns.
But when you do you also bring in eb. So then you have e+/eb. And only one copy of mahogany. You then breed those birds together until you get a e+/e+ and two copies of mahogany on the same chick.
To get that you also get an/eb, and e+/eb. Only 25% will be what you want.
Then the same with mahogany. You'll only get 25% with two copies of mahogany.
And then you have to get lucky or breed enough to get both sets together on the same chick.

 

[Tbird84]

Tha

If you just want mahogany introduced to yours then yes you can cross to dk browns.
But when you do you also bring in eb. So then you have e+/eb. And only one copy of mahogany. You then breed those birds together until you get a e+/e+ and two copies of mahogany on the same chick.
To get that you also get an/eb, and e+/eb. Only 25% will be what you want.
Then the same with mahogany. You'll only get 25% with two copies of mahogany.
And then you have to get lucky or breed enough to get both sets together on the same chick.

That definitely sounds like making more work for myself with not a huge outcome. Thanks for explaining this.

 

[The Moonshiner]

Yep. A lot of times it ends up that way.
So next time you see a post about someone wanting to make a "breed" that is blue mottled with a rose comb, beard, muffs, heavily feathered feet, frizzled, black skin, and lay blue eggs you'll have a understanding of how impossible that would really be unless they have 3 or 4 decades to work on them.
If I did want to cross lights and darks together to get lights with mahogany I would just work between those two then when got finished product then introduce the lavender gene with isabellas.
From experience its a lot easier to see whats going on with them when they're still brown. Lavender dilutes so much it makes things harder to see.

 

[Tbird84]

Thank you so much for your experience here. This is a great thread!

 

[ChicKat]

Here it is:

This diagram relates back to the great real-life picture posted by The Moonshiner:

the explanation is this-->
The front chick is an Isabella. The other three are Isabella splits.
The next one counter clockwise is e+/e+, then eb/eb and finally e+/eb.
Notice some differences?

So go back to the B&W chick diagram/illustration and see that chick 'A' on he diagram is e+e+(wild type) That's a match to the chick on the right side of the photo going out of the picture. See the 'V' above the comb/beak and the stripe by the eye?
Next chick in the upper right corner of the photo is 'B' on the diagram which as the Moonshiner says is eb/eb and the diagram calls it 'Brown' The solid dark color of that cute little head is a really good example from real life of the illustration.!!! wow
The 4th chick in the upper left has a split on the e-Locus as an e+ and eb which is shown on the diagram above the photo as either chick F or chick C -- 'speckled head' or 'heterozygous brown'.... I think maybe it's F. My screen doesn't allow the label to be read. Not sure where the original print out of that is or where it came from on the internet all those years ago.
It's from post #15 of the thread that explains the steps to create a Lavender Patterned Isabel Duckwing - Barred (dual factor) -- AND......... come to remember, if I did have any chicks that didn't exibit the 'A' markings -- I didn't breed any of them forward. It's all coming back to me now.
Here's the promised link back to the old thread about developing the particular path I traveled -- I guess they could also be called "Lavender Crele" and Lavender brown Cuckoo...etc. However Duckwing may be more accurate -- if we are talking about the e-Locus on mine.

Here's the other thread where post 15 shows the diagram/illustration
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...nd-genetic-dis.1153068/page-107#post-21945924

 

[The Moonshiner]

That is so cool.
Yes eb is called brown by some.
I can't read the stuff at the bottom either. Can anyone else?
My chick looks like F but IDK what it says the other e locus is. Mine is heterozygous brown.

 

[The Moonshiner]

@ChicKat
Man, I missed you having an active thread.
Always so much fun and you dig up so much info.
I hate searching for info.

 

[ChicKat]

Duckwing is duckwing

and really fine examples of the birds that show what you are saying!

I can't read the stuff at the bottom either. Can anyone else?
My chick looks like F but IDK what it says the other e locus is. Mine is heterozygous brown.

Tried to cut and paste it and put in other software and enlarge it. Also tried to use that magnifying glass thingie in windows all to no avail. I'm thinking I see some ey/ey there - maybe es - and I went out and found a row of all the possible e-Locus info:
-------------------------------------------
http://www.kippenjungle.nl/chickengenetics/mutations1.html#gen_mut_elocus
Below are the E locus genes.

Genes: E, ER, ER- Fay, eWh, e+, eb, es, ebc, ey, eq
Gene names: Extended Black, Birchen, Fayoumi Birchen, Dominant Wheaten, wild type, Brown, Speckled, Buttercup, Recessive Wheaten, Queen Silvia

----------------------Good article well worth the read!

lways so much fun and you dig up so much info.
I hate searching for info.

There of tons of things that I stumble across. -- The middle referenced article above I know I've read a couple of times over the years...but with each revisit I understand a bit more.
LOL Were opposite.. you keep tons of stuff in your head...and I'm Br'er Rabbit in the Briar Patch when looking for stuff.

I love searching info.

Oh yeah and a year without chickens was a strange year that's for sure. Glad to be back into them.

 

[The Moonshiner]