Lavender-Based Leghorn Breeding & Improvement Discussion

[Tbird84]

Yeah...I heard the color fads were one of the downfalls within the orpington breed. A new color would be made but not perfected before moving on to the next color. I get it but many are more moved by quick and numerous sales. I still see junky Lavender orps going for $40 a hen and $20 a cock bird here.

 

[Brahma Chicken5000]

Isn’t poor feather quality and the lavender gene linked in chickens? Maybe by hatching enough chicks from blacks split for lavender one or two will have the lavender feathers without the issues.

 

[The Moonshiner]

Yeah...I heard the color fads were one of the downfalls within the orpington breed. A new color would be made but not perfected before moving on to the next color. I get it but many are more moved by quick and numerous sales. I still see junky Lavender orps going for $40 a hen and $20 a cock bird here.

Ya. When you have selling and money at the top of the priorities list it can really bite ya or bite the ones who bought from ya.
Orps is a good example. It really started with the lavenders and its really gotten bad with the silver laced.
A lot of these breeders don't know much about genetics or even breeding for any type of quality. They understand a SL bred to a SL = SL chicks = $$$.
Yellow skin is something that needs to be removed from them and I see breeders that do nothing but push it forward unseen.
Yellow is recessive so takes to copies. White is dominate over yellow. If a breeder has a yellow shank bird they'll breed it to white shank birds. The offspring will have white shanks but carry a gene for yellow.
They're all good cause they have all white skin birds now but we know the yellow is still there and once those offspring are bred together it will start showing up again and also keep getting passed forward unseen in some chicks. They then start acting like it's some throw back genes to Wyandotte and its always gonna pop up sometimes cause it's in their heritage.
No its in the genes and you're doing nothing to breed it out.
Don't breed yellow skin birds and test breed to see if birds carry it or not and you will soon eliminate it.
Projects are fun because of the creation factor for me and sells are not in my goal.
That makes it easy but all I have to focus on is the birds. I don't have a goal of when I need X amount of breeders by so and so date to start producing product.
Birds breed slow so there's always time to think things through and seek out knowledge in between generations.

 

[The Moonshiner]

Isn’t poor feather quality and the lavender gene linked in chickens? Maybe by hatching enough chicks from blacks split for lavender one or two will have the lavender feathers without the issues.

it's not exactly linked but just so close together that it usually travels together.
It's like blue egg genes and the pea comb.
If birds have one they usually have the other but it's just the shredder gene. You can breed it out.
Porcelain D'Uccles were the first breed I bred with the lavender gene. They had minimal issues because they had been worked on so long before I came along.
Lavender orps were the oppisite. They were new to the lavender gene and it brought in the shredder gene with it. Not many understood what to do about it and so they did nothing but eyeball a bird and pick the least affected ones to breed if they even did that much.
Everyone says breed to black, breed to black and that will fix it. It's not just breeding to black that fixes it because there's something wrong with the lavender gene. Blacks won't be having the gene tag a long so by breeding to birds that don't carry it youre increasing your odds of it not getting passed along.

 

[ChicKat]

Isn’t poor feather quality and the lavender gene linked in chickens?

Maybe the short answer is 'yes' if we are talking about some experience of those ragged feathers or worse IMO the permanent pin feathers with black tips -- that look a bit like a burnt match, that occurs in lavs and no others. Perhaps it is a 'no' if we are talking about an actual physiological gene linkage...because the bad feathers can be bred out.

Everyone says breed to black, breed to black and that will fix it. It's not just breeding to black that fixes it because there's something wrong with the lavender gene. Blacks won't be having the gene tag a long so by breeding to birds that don't carry it youre increasing your odds of it not getting passed along.

Eggcellent points. I may expand to say that perhaps breeding outside just black will work -- Especially in the case of Isabel, because using any duck wing out cross would remain closer to one's desired pattern goals. Remember all of chicken pigments are just a combination of black, red and white where no pigment gets laid down in feather development.

 

[Tbird84]

Maybe the short answer is 'yes' if we are talking about some experience of those ragged feathers or worse IMO the permanent pin feathers with black tips -- that look a bit like a burnt match, that occurs in lavs and no others. Perhaps it is a 'no' if we are talking about an actual physiological gene linkage...because the bad feathers can be bred out.


Eggcellent points. I may expand to say that perhaps breeding outside just black will work -- Especially in the case of Isabel, because using any duck wing out cross would remain closer to one's desired pattern goals. Remember all of chicken pigments are just a combination of black, red and white where no pigment gets laid down in feather development.

So would breeding to the light browns be a better choice because of the duckwing?

 

[The Moonshiner]

So would breeding to the light browns be a better choice because of the duckwing?

I guess it would depend what your goals are.
If you're just wanting to work with Isabella then it surd would be the easiest choice because the Isabella is exactly genetically the same as gold duckwing except for the additional lavender genes.

 

[ChicKat]

I guess it would depend what your goals are.
If you're just wanting to work with Isabella then it surd would be the easiest choice because the Isabella is exactly genetically the same as gold duckwing except for the additional lavender genes.

Although it is early yet..... you should win the Quote of the Day - because this is so spot on and genetically clear. Bravo!

 

[Tbird84]

Hmmm. So could you do an outcross to dark brown to improve contrast then on the next outcross use light browns to maintain/improve the wing triangle?

 

[ChicKat]

Hmmm. So could you do an outcross to dark brown to improve contrast then on the next outcross use light browns to maintain/improve the wing triangle?

From what I know, the duck wing plumage pattern is expressed in Silver, Gold and 'Red' which I think is mahogany. It can get a bit confusing though. So if one were to find a bird that had dark brown (mahogany, right? and maybe some melanizers to darken the brown....I don't know the genetics of dark brown)--- BUT............. as the Moonshiner pointed out (I'm thinking while typing) if the Darkbrown Leghorn is based on something other than e+e+ on the e-LOcus, then it wouldn't be that wild type. Although I'm confusing myself here and maybe others in the process....I'll do some digging and be back this afternoon. I have a meeting shortly that will keep me tied up for some hours.
These questions are SO GOOD -- because we can look at a lot of the 'moving parts' during our discussion.