Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[math ace]

Quote:
I just went to Home Depot yesterday to buy the materials for one of the two brooders that I need for this years Spring hatching....
OMG - - Talk about a heart attack. . . . Check out total ALMOST KILLED ME ON THE SPOT!

DH was right behind me in line. He handled it like a pro!

Do you get any cull wood 2x4's? Sometimes I find quite a few good over half-long 2x4's for .50 cents a piece at H.D. Usually Monday or Tuesday are good days to find culls because alot of people get thier wood for projects over the weekends. Sometimes these are untreated but okay for making coops or brooders if you are using them for the frame and nailing plywood over them anyways, then painting/sealing them with something.

I check every time I go in.... BUT I seem to miss them.
This last time they had some wood that look like it might of been worth checking into BUT I had the WHOLE crowd - DH, children AND Dad with me.
Needless to say, we stayed with the list and got out as quick as we could.

I have noticed that the pricing in MUCH BETTER at the HD on Lem Turner than the one on Lane. I am talking about the prices on scrap wood.
The one on Lane trys to sell them for almost as much as new and whole pieces of wood

 

[gilavina]

Quote:
haha I don't know something you guys don't... I just feel really torn and this why I am so careful about how, who, when, where and why I release my stock.

I'll say this first...and this is only because of what I've observed and quite frankly gut instinct that comes from raising birds for a long time is mixed in here too....so you can take or leave what I have to say. My hunch is that we are dealing with several things....I do think there are carnations in the Marans, however, I also do believe there are other comb issues including sprigs in various expressions and also inverts. I don't think I can explain enough how much of a comb cop my dad is.....so, I've grown up with him pounding it into my brain all sorts of facts and projects he's taken on to test in real life what he would find in books and etc.

This is something I know...any comb issue...no matter what kind, will spread like wildfire and can do so in a much shorter time than I even want to admit. It doesn't seem to just worsen, following generations of offspring will have the problems, but compounded and more extreme. This is why the second I see something in a bird that's not negotiable...out they go. They may join my layer pen, but they will never be used for breeding. Although I will be doing some testing with the carnations and doing some research logging as I go to see what I can find for myself, but those will remain separate from everyone.

Looking at the amount of people that are selling hatching eggs and chicks and started stock and etc...while it can be a wonderful tool for people getting started, it can also be detrimental to a breed. I don't want to step on anyone's toes or ANYTHING like that at all and I LOVE that people are getting into poultry. It makes my heart happy....but the part that makes my heart sad is that I feel like in some circumstances the making money takes precidence over doing the work to improve the stock before selling. And even beyond that if someone chooses to sell....educating people just getting into birds about the reality of hatching eggs and chicks and buying other stock and such. I don't think some people truly know how to cull or that it is even something that is needed. I don't think there is any breed or line out there that when acquired and grown out will yield 100% that should go the a breeding pen. I've culled entire lines of birds because they have not met the standards or even been close. Even top breeders will raise up chicks and by the time they've gone through the entire culling process as those chicks grow they may end up holding 10% back for breeding or selling as starter stock. To me, the odds of getting amazing stock from hatching eggs that come from someone that doesn't have a breeding plan in place is beyond slim.

Honestly...I have so many thoughts swirling around in my mind that I don't know how to word it all properly, so I'll stop for now...and I fear I may not be relaying as clearly what I mean as i should. if I sound all over the map...its because there are so many things that are interconnected and to me really the best thing we can do for ourselves is what we are doing on this forum...looking at issues, learning how to cull properly, teaching others that come along and making the tough decisions in our own flocks to make sure that we are not part of the problem. Does this make any sense at all?

I think for me...I'm going to proceed in the control group I'm working to set up with what I am most familiar with and that is side sprigs. There really is no way to know 100% for sure which it is we are dealing with. And who's to say that while they might look similar, one person is dealing with sprigs, while the other is dealing with carnations? Its all overwhelming, but I just keep having this morbid thought in my head...what does a Marans look like with a carnation, sidesprigs and an invert?

I'm starting to wonder if we aren't seeing more than one issue expressing on a comb at a time too... Ok...I'm shutting up now. I'm depressing myself

 

[pinkchick]

Quote:
They look like sprigs to me. Sprigs show up in all breeds, so it would make since to identify them as sprigs.

(Debbi, I have the wrong glasses on AGAIN... but I think I got the spellings correct!)


PINK,
How frequently are you hatching these combs? What percentage of chicks are having the comb faults?
PM me if you want to answer privately

I have personally only hatched out 3 with this comb problem, one of which is the Silver Black Birchen that is not from any of my birds, they were hatching eggs from some one here on BYC. Others were hatched out by folks close to me that got hatching eggs or very young chicks from that and I would not have seen it at just a few days old, others were hatched by those of you here on BYC that got hatching eggs from me....total was 14 chicks out of 6 hens from GFF and Gnarles that produced all of the sprigs or carnations in the Marans. Couldn't tell you what the heck happened in the Delaware.

The Delaware was also a hatching egg sent to me from someone here on BYC, so these 2 birds can not be counted in the bad comb issue that is expressing in the Marans.

 

[flgardengirl]

Quote:
Do you get any cull wood 2x4's? Sometimes I find quite a few good over half-long 2x4's for .50 cents a piece at H.D. Usually Monday or Tuesday are good days to find culls because alot of people get thier wood for projects over the weekends. Sometimes these are untreated but okay for making coops or brooders if you are using them for the frame and nailing plywood over them anyways, then painting/sealing them with something.

I check every time I go in.... BUT I seem to miss them.
This last time they had some wood that look like it might of been worth checking into BUT I had the WHOLE crowd - DH, children AND Dad with me.
Needless to say, we stayed with the list and got out as quick as we could.

I have noticed that the pricing in MUCH BETTER at the HD on Lem Turner than the one on Lane. I am talking about the prices on scrap wood.
The one on Lane trys to sell them for almost as much as new and whole pieces of wood

Yeah I go to the one on Lem Turner as well or the one of the ones in Orange Park if I'm already over there. If I go to Lowes I go to the one by the airport or in O.P.

 

[math ace]

Quote:
Thanks for the reply .. . I am going to further the questions privately... sending you an email!

 

[Debbi]

Quote:
haha I don't know something you guys don't... I just feel really torn and this why I am so careful about how, who, when, where and why I release my stock.

I'll say this first...and this is only because of what I've observed and quite frankly gut instinct that comes from raising birds for a long time is mixed in here too....so you can take or leave what I have to say. My hunch is that we are dealing with several things....I do think there are carnations in the Marans, however, I also do believe there are other comb issues including sprigs in various expressions and also inverts. I don't think I can explain enough how much of a comb cop my dad is.....so, I've grown up with him pounding it into my brain all sorts of facts and projects he's taken on to test in real life what he would find in books and etc.

This is something I know...any comb issue...no matter what kind, will spread like wildfire and can do so in a much shorter time than I even want to admit. It doesn't seem to just worsen, following generations of offspring will have the problems, but compounded and more extreme. This is why the second I see something in a bird that's not negotiable...out they go. They may join my layer pen, but they will never be used for breeding. Although I will be doing some testing with the carnations and doing some research logging as I go to see what I can find for myself, but those will remain separate from everyone.

Looking at the amount of people that are selling hatching eggs and chicks and started stock and etc...while it can be a wonderful tool for people getting started, it can also be detrimental to a breed. I don't want to step on anyone's toes or ANYTHING like that at all and I LOVE that people are getting into poultry. It makes my heart happy....but the part that makes my heart sad is that I feel like in some circumstances the making money takes precidence over doing the work to improve the stock before selling. And even beyond that if someone chooses to sell....educating people just getting into birds about the reality of hatching eggs and chicks and buying other stock and such. I don't think some people truly know how to cull or that it is even something that is needed. I don't think there is any breed or line out there that when acquired and grown out will yield 100% that should go the a breeding pen. I've culled entire lines of birds because they have not met the standards or even been close. Even top breeders will raise up chicks and by the time they've gone through the entire culling process as those chicks grow they may end up holding 10% back for breeding or selling as starter stock. To me, the odds of getting amazing stock from hatching eggs that come from someone that doesn't have a breeding plan in place is beyond slim.

Honestly...I have so many thoughts swirling around in my mind that I don't know how to word it all properly, so I'll stop for now...and I fear I may not be relaying as clearly what I mean as i should. if I sound all over the map...its because there are so many things that are interconnected and to me really the best thing we can do for ourselves is what we are doing on this forum...looking at issues, learning how to cull properly, teaching others that come along and making the tough decisions in our own flocks to make sure that we are not part of the problem. Does this make any sense at all?

I think for me...I'm going to proceed in the control group I'm working to set up with what I am most familiar with and that is side sprigs. There really is no way to know 100% for sure which it is we are dealing with. And who's to say that while they might look similar, one person is dealing with sprigs, while the other is dealing with carnations? Its all overwhelming, but I just keep having this morbid thought in my head...what does a Marans look like with a carnation, sidesprigs and an invert?

I'm starting to wonder if we aren't seeing more than one issue expressing on a comb at a time too... Ok...I'm shutting up now. I'm depressing myself

Your input is most valuable. Now, I want to see a pic of an "invert". Good golly Miss Molly, I don't even know if I have that one yet?!

 

[gilavina]

Quote:
haha I don't know something you guys don't... I just feel really torn and this why I am so careful about how, who, when, where and why I release my stock.

I'll say this first...and this is only because of what I've observed and quite frankly gut instinct that comes from raising birds for a long time is mixed in here too....so you can take or leave what I have to say. My hunch is that we are dealing with several things....I do think there are carnations in the Marans, however, I also do believe there are other comb issues including sprigs in various expressions and also inverts. I don't think I can explain enough how much of a comb cop my dad is.....so, I've grown up with him pounding it into my brain all sorts of facts and projects he's taken on to test in real life what he would find in books and etc.

This is something I know...any comb issue...no matter what kind, will spread like wildfire and can do so in a much shorter time than I even want to admit. It doesn't seem to just worsen, following generations of offspring will have the problems, but compounded and more extreme. This is why the second I see something in a bird that's not negotiable...out they go. They may join my layer pen, but they will never be used for breeding. Although I will be doing some testing with the carnations and doing some research logging as I go to see what I can find for myself, but those will remain separate from everyone.

Looking at the amount of people that are selling hatching eggs and chicks and started stock and etc...while it can be a wonderful tool for people getting started, it can also be detrimental to a breed. I don't want to step on anyone's toes or ANYTHING like that at all and I LOVE that people are getting into poultry. It makes my heart happy....but the part that makes my heart sad is that I feel like in some circumstances the making money takes precidence over doing the work to improve the stock before selling. And even beyond that if someone chooses to sell....educating people just getting into birds about the reality of hatching eggs and chicks and buying other stock and such. I don't think some people truly know how to cull or that it is even something that is needed. I don't think there is any breed or line out there that when acquired and grown out will yield 100% that should go the a breeding pen. I've culled entire lines of birds because they have not met the standards or even been close. Even top breeders will raise up chicks and by the time they've gone through the entire culling process as those chicks grow they may end up holding 10% back for breeding or selling as starter stock. To me, the odds of getting amazing stock from hatching eggs that come from someone that doesn't have a breeding plan in place is beyond slim.

Honestly...I have so many thoughts swirling around in my mind that I don't know how to word it all properly, so I'll stop for now...and I fear I may not be relaying as clearly what I mean as i should. if I sound all over the map...its because there are so many things that are interconnected and to me really the best thing we can do for ourselves is what we are doing on this forum...looking at issues, learning how to cull properly, teaching others that come along and making the tough decisions in our own flocks to make sure that we are not part of the problem. Does this make any sense at all?

I think for me...I'm going to proceed in the control group I'm working to set up with what I am most familiar with and that is side sprigs. There really is no way to know 100% for sure which it is we are dealing with. And who's to say that while they might look similar, one person is dealing with sprigs, while the other is dealing with carnations? Its all overwhelming, but I just keep having this morbid thought in my head...what does a Marans look like with a carnation, sidesprigs and an invert?

I'm starting to wonder if we aren't seeing more than one issue expressing on a comb at a time too... Ok...I'm shutting up now. I'm depressing myself

Your input is most valuable. Now, I want to see a pic of an "invert". Good golly Miss Molly, I don't even know if I have that one yet?!

If it was light out I could get you a shot of an invert on a rosecomb that's waiting to go to a friends layer flock when she comes to get some girls I have for her. I'll have to hunt around and see if there is a pic of it anywhere.... you can't forget 'telescope' combs either. Its sickening. You know that boy you posted a pic of that you said has the double dose? You think you could post that again for me? I'm wanting to look at something.

 

[Debbi]

Sure, one Muttley pic coming up!

 

[flgardengirl]

I see that muttley has some of that feather shafting going on as well as the comb thingy. Who is the fellow next to him? He is quite handsome!

 

[Debbi]

Quote:
Yes, the feather shafting tends to go hand in hand with the combs. The boy next to him is Blue Butt. He has a really nice, pyramidal sprig on the other side of that comb, and he is one NASTY MEAN sonofagun!!!