Mareks....I think?

[HendricksonHomestead]

Hi! I keep having chickens die from leg paralysis. They all start out walking on their hock on one leg, then it progresses to complete paralysis where one leg sticks straight forward and one sticks straight back. I’ve cut one of these chickens open after it died and didn’t find any indication of mareks. But I really keep leaning toward this every time. I have one right now who is totally paralyzed. I’m sure she’ll die from this if I don’t cull. Any other ideas of what it could be? All of these hens that this has happened to over the last few months have all been different batches I bought from TSC, so originally I thought that it was something genetically wrong thanks to TSC. They all have been around 4-6 months when this has happened. This one is 9 months old though. I don’t know what else this could be, their eyes have been normal/pupils even. Their skin doesn’t look abnormal to me, they all have been alert, wanting to eat/drink, just cannot move their legs. Photo of one of the previous hens before she died.

 

[microchick]

Thank you for the tag @Wyorp Rock

@HendricksonHomestead I am so sorry that you are going through this. Reading your post and looking at the picture I would bet real money that you are indeed dealing with Marek's Disease.

The good news is that not all of your birds are going to die. The bad news is that even asymptomatic birds are exposed and carrying the disease. Plus the virus is now on your property.

I had all three forms of Marek's show up in my flock which was bought from a private breeder. Some developed tumors, some developed neurological, some developed ocular. With the 'scissor paralysis' in the legs if you do a necropsy you will be looking for enlargement of the main nerve that goes down the leg. Tumors will show up in the viscera or anywhere else on the body. I lost a beautiful rooster to tumors in his throat that I couldn't see because of his hackle feathers and big wattles.

It's painful to tell people that their chickens likely have this disease but the truth of the matter is that Marek's is everywhere and the key to having a flock that doesn't succumb to it is breeding for resistance. Your surviving birds (I lost 2/3rds of my flock) will be resistant even though they are still carriers. For some unknown reason, chicks from my surviving resistant Buff Orpingtons were MORE susceptible to the strain I dealt with instead of more resistant.

I dealt with the problem by eventually culling all of my original flock and bringing in local birds that I hatched myself who showed no signs of the illness. I lost one chick at 9 weeks (which seems to be the age where they exhibit the primary infection) to scissor paralysis and a rooster at 2 years of age (most of my birds died at 1-2 years of age and 75% contrary to everything I read, were male) but the local bred birds are thriving which makes me suspect that they built resistance to the strain around me.

My best advice is to wait to see what happens next. You seem to be dealing with what is happening to your pullets with a clear head. Sick birds spread more disease carrying dander. Culling at the first sign of illness is all you can do not only for the bird that is suffering but for the birds that will be exposed to virus laden dander.

Indeed, to get a solid diagnosis have a necropsy done if you desire but by the picture I don't think they are going to tell you anything that you don't already suspect.

to you. You are not alone. There are more people here on BYC dealing with Marek's disease than you can count. The big thing is not to give up. After the initial loss goes through your flock, it will slow down. I went from losing one to two birds a week to losing one or two a year after 2+ years of going through a long and heartbreaking siege.

 

[Chickensandhorsesforlife]

So sorry I have no expierience with this.
@sourland ,@SulkyBantam , @Wyorp Rock Can you help? I see you guys quite often.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Hi! I keep having chickens die from leg paralysis. They all start out walking on their hock on one leg, then it progresses to complete paralysis where one leg sticks straight forward and one sticks straight back. I’ve cut one of these chickens open after it died and didn’t find any indication of mareks. But I really keep leaning toward this every time. I have one right now who is totally paralyzed. I’m sure she’ll die from this if I don’t cull. Any other ideas of what it could be? All of these hens that this has happened to over the last few months have all been different batches I bought from TSC, so originally I thought that it was something genetically wrong thanks to TSC. They all have been around 4-6 months when this has happened. This one is 9 months old though. I don’t know what else this could be, their eyes have been normal/pupils even. Their skin doesn’t look abnormal to me, they all have been alert, wanting to eat/drink, just cannot move their legs. Photo of one of the previous hens before she died. View attachment 2511219

I'm sorry about your pullets.


I would lean towards this being Marek's as well since you've had more than one present with the splits like that. The best way to get official confirmation would be to have a necropsy at your state lab. https://www.metzerfarms.com/PoultryLabs.cfm

@microchick may want to take a look as well and chime in.

I'm not sure what you looked for during your home necropsy? I think for paralysis like this you would look at the peripheral nerves in the legs but don't quote me on that.
There's 4 "forms" of Marek's - Ocular, Visceral, Cutaneous, Neurological. So eyes or skin may not be affected depending on which form or strain is at play.

 

[HendricksonHomestead]

Thank you for the tag @Wyorp Rock

@HendricksonHomestead I am so sorry that you are going through this. Reading your post and looking at the picture I would bet real money that you are indeed dealing with Marek's Disease.

The good news is that not all of your birds are going to die. The bad news is that even asymptomatic birds are exposed and carrying the disease. Plus the virus is now on your property.

I had all three forms of Marek's show up in my flock which was bought from a private breeder. Some developed tumors, some developed neurological, some developed ocular. With the 'scissor paralysis' in the legs if you do a necropsy you will be looking for enlargement of the main nerve that goes down the leg. Tumors will show up in the viscera or anywhere else on the body. I lost a beautiful rooster to tumors in his throat that I couldn't see because of his hackle feathers and big wattles.

It's painful to tell people that their chickens likely have this disease but the truth of the matter is that Marek's is everywhere and the key to having a flock that doesn't succumb to it is breeding for resistance. Your surviving birds (I lost 2/3rds of my flock) will be resistant even though they are still carriers. For some unknown reason, chicks from my surviving resistant Buff Orpingtons were MORE susceptible to the strain I dealt with instead of more resistant.

I dealt with the problem by eventually culling all of my original flock and bringing in local birds that I hatched myself who showed no signs of the illness. I lost one chick at 9 weeks (which seems to be the age where they exhibit the primary infection) to scissor paralysis and a rooster at 2 years of age (most of my birds died at 1-2 years of age and 75% contrary to everything I read, were male) but the local bred birds are thriving which makes me suspect that they built resistance to the strain around me.

My best advice is to wait to see what happens next. You seem to be dealing with what is happening to your pullets with a clear head. Sick birds spread more disease carrying dander. Culling at the first sign of illness is all you can do not only for the bird that is suffering but for the birds that will be exposed to virus laden dander.

Indeed, to get a solid diagnosis have a necropsy done if you desire but by the picture I don't think they are going to tell you anything that you don't already suspect.

to you. You are not alone. There are more people here on BYC dealing with Marek's disease than you can count. The big thing is not to give up. After the initial loss goes through your flock, it will slow down. I went from losing one to two birds a week to losing one or two a year after 2+ years of going through a long and heartbreaking siege.

Thank you so much. It must have come from my tractor supply for all of these chicks to be affected. I hope my older birds don’t start dropping too. I’m not happy my suspicions are probably correct, but I’m glad I pretty much know what I’m dealing with. I’m debating sending her to MSU for a necropsy, just trying to decide if the $190 is worth it or not. It’s been months of losing a bird every month or so, so I hope it slows down.

 

[microchick]

Thank you so much. It must have come from my tractor supply for all of these chicks to be affected. I hope my older birds don’t start dropping too. I’m not happy my suspicions are probably correct, but I’m glad I pretty much know what I’m dealing with. I’m debating sending her to MSU for a necropsy, just trying to decide if the $190 is worth it or not. It’s been months of losing a bird every month or so, so I hope it slows down.

If they survive the primary infection, the waiting game begins. Many birds will later die from tumors or infections as the immune systems of carrier birds is sometimes damaged by the primary infection and the ongoing effects of the herpes virus in their systems. I had birds die from respiratory failure and or cardiac involvement. Some I would find sitting on the roost bar gasping for breath and blue in the comb and wattles. A few just fell over and died while I was watching them. More died from seizures, usually about the same age as your birds. Marek's disease is just a heartless S.O.--you know what and I hate it with a screaming passion.

I had a conversation with a Veterinary Doctor down at the University of Missouri at Columbia who told me what to hope for are birds that survive to be 3-4 years of age and then hope that you can get fertile eggs to hatch from them. Those birds, he told me, should be resistant to the virus as the way I understand it, resistance is bred into them from the hen.

I had hens that survived until they were 4 but my problem was my roosters wouldn't live past 2. Possibly that factor was what kept my second generation from surviving.

I'll never know.

I have never bought birds from TSC. I have bought a few bantams from Orscheln's here in Missouri that they told me were vaccinated. They must be telling me the truth because they are 3 years old now and appear healthy. I have also bought Egyptian Fayoumis from Murray McMurry hatchery and integrated them into my flock. Fayoumis are noted for their resistance to Marek's disease. Of course at this point in time I play it safe and only bring in birds that have been vaccinated. But if you are dealing with MD, IMHO, Fayoumis are your best choice for chickens. They aren't overly friendly and detest cuddles (although mine will eat out of my hand) but they are good layers, not overly broody and best of all are resistant to MD.

To this day I go into the coop and look around for a dead bird or one that is sick. When I find none, I breathe a sigh of relief. Until the next time.

 

[HendricksonHomestead]

I'm sorry about your pullets.


I would lean towards this being Marek's as well since you've had more than one present with the splits like that. The best way to get official confirmation would be to have a necropsy at your state lab. https://www.metzerfarms.com/PoultryLabs.cfm

@microchick may want to take a look as well and chime in.

I'm not sure what you looked for during your home necropsy? I think for paralysis like this you would look at the peripheral nerves in the legs but don't quote me on that.
There's 4 "forms" of Marek's - Ocular, Visceral, Cutaneous, Neurological. So eyes or skin may not be affected depending on which form or strain is at play.

I tried to look for the tumors since that’s what people say they’d have inside if it’s mareks. But I suppose some forms wouldn’t show that.

 

[jolenesdad]

I tried to look for the tumors since that’s what people say they’d have inside if it’s mareks. But I suppose some forms wouldn’t show that.

Many times they can be very difficult to see if you are not trained. Furthermore, it’s histology that confirms Mareks. These birds could be filled with lesions and lymphoma cells at the cellular level on microscope examination.

what do you feed? Do you free range? Is this your first flock?

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I tried to look for the tumors since that’s what people say they’d have inside if it’s mareks. But I suppose some forms wouldn’t show that.

Right. Visceral form is tumors, but Neurological affects the nerves.

As far as I know, I don't have Marek's in my flocks, but to be honest I would cull any that have symptoms, may not be what some would do, but for me that's how I would manage the disease if that's what I assumed it to be. Marek's is one of those puzzling diseases that can present in sooo many different ways.
https://partnersah.vet.cornell.edu/avian-atlas/search/disease/502#/disease/Marek's_Disease

 

[HendricksonHomestead]

Many times they can be very difficult to see if you are not trained. Furthermore, it’s histology that confirms Mareks. These birds could be filled with lesions and lymphoma cells at the cellular level on microscope examination.

what do you feed? Do you free range? Is this your first flock?

I feed nutrena naturewise all flock, I have chickens, geese, ducks, guineas. I do not free range right now but I did this past summer for a couple months, it happened then too. This is not my first flock, I’ve had chickens 2 years and this has only happened to tractor supply pullets I got this spring/summer. I went 3 different times and these pullets have been the only ones affected. None of my original birds or any other adult birds I have have been affected. I’ve had australorps, isa browns, and americaunas affected.