MO woman faces charges over dogs

[joan1708]

If you love your chickens, then please protect them. Chickens are so very vulnerable. If you can't protect your chickens from a couple chihuahuas, you must not love your chickens very much, especially when you know they are out there. There will always be people that don't take care of their animals. If you know there are loose dogs out and they can still get to your chickens, you are not taking care of your animal either.

 

[ChickChickChicky]

speckledhen, while you (and others) may see it as a chicken issue, I see it as a property rights issue. I think that a person has an absolute right to enjoy his/her property in whatever way they see fit, SO LONG AS IT DOES NOT ADVERSELY EFFECT HIS/HER NEIGHBOR. That lady with the dogs is trampling her neighbor's rights, and morever is being a smart-alek ***** about it. I say, not only punish her, since she still thinks it's all a joke, punish her HARD in an attempt to modify her behaviour.

 

[Achickenwrangler#1]

Too true..it's much more than simply a dog got loose and killed a chicken...apparently it's happened alot and this elderly couple just wants there peace and quiet and their chickens/pets, and this snotnose is laughing at them because they are upset. How would you feel if that was your parents? Obviously this little twit doesn't need the burden of a pet since she has so many children so what kind of example are you setting for them.? I'm glad the judge is teaching her a lesson...she should be happy it's the judge teaching her and not me. Too many kids don't respect their elders, they should know, old age and treachery overcomes youth and inexperience any day.
My daughter in law accidently let her chihauhau/cross loose while visiting, it went after my chickens immediately and she was mortified and couldn't catch it....I told her to wait a minute...I was watching my roos, they were baiting it to follow them, then they flew in the trees, all the hens had hidden in the woods. It could have been bad if I'd had little chicks out, or if she had laughed and thought it funny I might have just broken it's little neck when i caught it and laughed too...and said that's how we do it in the country.

 

[TheJadeChicken]

Did anyone else watch the video? She said after her dogs killed the chicken. She bought a pen and started locking the dogs up and even offered $30 for the dead chicken. But the Chicken owner had NO RIGHT to cuss and scream at the woman. But the woman should not have laughed even if she has never owned chickens. Jail Time and a $1000 fine is a bit excessive IMO. But to lose her home, her dogs, kids, and job is WAY OVER the top.

I will admit, we have Chihuahuas, Great Danes, and a Great Pyrenees that get loose every once in a while. They haven't killed anyone else's chickens, yet. I can see both sides of the issue. No one is right, they both had faults. And not everyone is a livestock person or even a chicken person.

 

[Cosmopolis Chick]

I am trying to be rational and adult but I am still emotional about a dog attack on my chickens several months ago.

I came home to a police note on my door and message on my answering machine.
I ran to the coop and 1 young one was already dead, two were injured and bloody.
I took them to the vet, one died the next morning. The other had trouble with her balance for a month and hardly ever lays. When she does lay it's a shell-less egg.
The police have assured me they took my complaint seriously and charges were filed but the owner of the dogs has made no contact with me, not even a sorry note.
I am going to file in Small Claims Court but really dread it. I hate confrontation.
I lost my best broody who raised all of our chicks, whether from eggs I bought or chicks I bought for her, she didn't discriminate.
I lost a POL pullet.
I lost the production of the hen that survived, she is still here because she was always one of my favorites and I will just consider her 'retired' at 1 1/2 years old.
I am out $165.00 for the vet bill.

The worst part of the whole thing is that it was all so unnecessary. The dogs live 2 miles from here. 2 miles on city streets - not country roads. The responding officer told me they are well-known as loose dogs, against city ordinances, and continue even after this incident to occasionally be left out. I have to drive past their house 2-4 times a day and I see them lying in the open once in awhile.

My chickens are enclosed in 6' fencing but the dogs found a way in.
One dog is an Australian shepherd, the other is a Jack Russell. I don't care how secure the fencing if the Jack wants in he will get in. I do not hate the dogs, they don't know any better.

 

[joan1708]

cosmopolis chick. Have you considered calling animal control every time you see them out and take a picture to send. Usually the fines are stiffer with each offense. It will likely motivate these people to fix their fence or re-home the dogs before there is more blood shed. Your name doesn't have to get out there. Sounds like the dogs will be back if you don't intervene.

 

[speckledhen]

speckledhen, while you (and others) may see it as a chicken issue, I see it as a property rights issue. I think that a person has an absolute right to enjoy his/her property in whatever way they see fit, SO LONG AS IT DOES NOT ADVERSELY EFFECT HIS/HER NEIGHBOR. That lady with the dogs is trampling her neighbor's rights, and morever is being a smart-alek ***** about it. I say, not only punish her, since she still thinks it's all a joke, punish her HARD in an attempt to modify her behaviour.

No, you're wrong. I do see it as a property rights issue. I was just saying the attitude toward chickens is also part of the problem. You didn't read the rest of what I said, apparently. Please go back and read the other posts I made in this thread.

Never mind, I'll quote it for you from my previous post:


Quote:

 

[joan1708]

Yes and you should be able to let your children out the play in their own yard unattended. But you can't do that either if you want to keep them safe.

 

[dainerra]

we don't know how the conversation started. We are fairly certain from the things that the woman said that this isn't the first time that she has let her dogs roam the neighborhood so it's unlikely to be the first time that someone complained about them.

She said she answered the phone and the man was cussing. What did he say? It might have been "those *dang* dogs were here again!" While it's cussing at her, I don't see this as too out of line. But then she laughed about it. She admits herself that it was all she could do to not bust out laughing. Do you think that was proper? Or do you think that served to goad the guy to even greater anger?

She offered him $30. Yes, it was an offer but this was AFTER she had laughed at his distress over "just a chicken". If it was me, I would have told her to stick her $30 where the sun don't shine. Of course, I would have also told her that I would be waiting with a shotgun the next time I saw the little monsters. I'm pretty sure that buckshot would make one heck of a mess with a Chihuahua, be sure to bring a sponge.

The jail time and the $1000 fine are just listed as the max penalties that are in the law for a misdemeanor offense. It's pretty darn rare for someone to ever get the maximum sentence, especially if it's their first time before the judge. From her interview with the paper, I would bet money that she went before the Judge with the same "OMG this guy is so stupid. This is just funny and ridiculous that he's upset over a chicken." Little secret, that isn't going to help your case - judges tend to not like it when defendants treat the courtroom as a joke.

The lose job thing is highly unlikely unless you are in a specialized career where any kind of crime can make you lose clearance (think law enforcement, government worker). Lose kids? Well, if she DID go to jail and she didn't have any way to make arrangements for their care, then yes, the kids would go into the system until she got out. Again, highly unlikely.

I will say, though, that losing her dogs could definitely be a possibility. In some states, the law could declare them dangerous and order them euthanized. I have no problem with that. In other states, the law might require special containment for the dogs to be sure that they can't escape - if they escape again they could be put down. Again, I have no problem with that.

It all comes down to one simple fact - if she had taken the matter seriously from the start it would have never came to this.

 

[speckledhen]

Yes and you should be able to let your children out the play in their own yard unattended. But you can't do that either if you want to keep them safe.

Children playing inside a fenced yard on a country property with their parents right inside the house is a natural thing. We are not talking about children, though, so let's stay on topic.


Free ranging is natural for chickens. Free ranging on the property of the owner, in my own case, inside a huge 2 acre fenced perimeter, is natural and my right. If I had to keep them penned, eating only commercial feed 24/7, then I'd be just as well off buying cheaper, 6 week old grocery store eggs and saving a TON of money. We prefer the healthier, rich, eggy-eggs from what they eat on range.

We have laws here in the state and the county that tell me that a dog off the owner's property must be under the control of that owner at all times. The same ordinances say that any dog harassing livestock or poultry may be shot without recourse to the shooter. The law doesn't say my chickens have to be in tight cages for that to be enforced.

If you read my previous post, one dog have literally climbed my fence, one dog was put over my fence, etc. I did my duty to "keep my chickens safe", as you put it, yet they were still in danger from roaming dogs.

I refuse to lock them in pens where they are less healthy, more susceptible to worms, lay more anemic, grocery-store-like eggs because they can't get to forage, etc. If they are killed by some nasty little dog that finds its way inside the fence somehow, I suppose some would still say it's my fault. That attitude is the same one we encounter here all the time, i.e., all chickens should be locked in a tight cage, dogs are just doing what dogs do, etc.