Naked Neck/Turken Thread

[bemba]

Interesting stuff from kev I do not think that he will mind reposting as it might save him from re-commenting.


Originally Posted by Kev


Excellent observation! "dark skin is sex linked" does get passed around but really, it's missing out on important details. Dark skin is not sex linked. That's exactly why you had dark skin in both sexes... that's to be expected because dark skin inherits in a simple dominant manner.

One very important factor are other genes- one being Id, it inhibits skin pigmentation in the skin. It's the cause of yellow or white legs on birds without barring. This gene will variably repress the dark skin gene. Id is also sex linked.... so a mating of a dark skin with a bird having the Id gene will seem to prove dark skin is sex linked but that's only an illusion because it's the Id gene doing that work.

A dark skin rooster bred with a hen with Id will seem to produce dark skinned daughters and light- light-ish skinned sons. (this will seem to confirm dark skin being sex linked but it's really the Id gene that's sex linked and repressing the skin color in the sons)

A dark skin rooster bred with a hen without Id will produce dark skins in both sexes. Sex linked theory of dark skin simply disproven.

Hmmm interesting! You could forgive me for thinking it was sex linked, but first I need someone to explain what id is and how it works.....

 

[mcrooke45]

This is Buzz at 14 days old and his little 2 day old sister.




They are my Showgirl x Dark Cornish chicks that came out naked necks. You can call them
my Cornecked chickens.

Mark

 

[Kev]

Flower- I didn't mind at all and thanks for posting that info.

Hmmm interesting! You could forgive me for thinking it was sex linked, but first I need someone to explain what id is and how it works.....

No worries! It does keep coming up.. I should start asking where did that information come from?

Id is Inhibitor of Dermal pigmentation. Skin has several separate layers, the dermis is one of them. In chickens, normally(as in the red junglefowl) the dermis layer on their legs has pigment. This dermis layer pigmentation with the 'body skin color' combines to give visually blue or green legs. If the chicken has white skin, their legs will be blue. If they have yellow skin, their legs will look green.

Id is a sex linked dominant mutation that suppresses pigmentation in the dermis layer. White skinned bird with Id will have white legs(it's their body skin color showing up on their legs 'unobstructed' by any other pigmentation). Same as yellow skin with Id= yellow legs.

Id also has an effect on black skin pigmentation. So a mating involving black skin and Id can seem to give sex linked results, however the important part is that the black skin is merely 'suppressed' from showing up *visually* unlike true sex linked matings like sex linked barring/cuckoo, where the sex linked gene really is not present in any way on some of the offspring.

Silkie roo bred with Barred rock= barred cockerels, non-barred pullets. The pullets really do not have the barring gene at all. It's 'gone' in the every sense of the word.

Silkie roo bred with Rhode island Red(yellow legs due to Id)= cockerels either all or mostly light skinned, pullets dark skinned. Notice the sexes are 'reverse' of the true sex linking above as for black skin but 'true' just like barring as for Id making the skins light on cockerels but not on pullets.

Now let's see what happens if you bred a Silkie with a blue or green legged hen(any breed or mix)= all chicks dark skinned in both sexes.

Blue or green legged roo bred with Silkie? Also all chicks both sexes dark skinned.

 

[Kev]

HA! cornecks.....

This picture is a great way of showing black skin is not sex linked and also the effect of Id on black skin. His skin is light due to Id not 'letting' black skin gene work on the body skin.. however you can now see his skull and trachea/neck bones are actually black. This is due to black skin gene- it also makes bones and various organs become dark in color.

I kind of love the "X-ray" look some black skins with Id can have, like this chick.

This is Buzz at 14 days old and his little 2 day old sister.


They are my Showgirl x Dark Cornish chicks that came out naked necks. You can call them
my Cornecked chickens.

Mark

 

[Kev]

?!?! One of my old projects was to make red duckwing, wheaten and crele Polish. I gave up on that when it was too difficult to get any in those colors PLUS a medium or better crests..... and then you come along with this pic?! A red duckwinged roo with full size crest!

AFAIK there are no or still very few red duckwing Polish roos in US. There's a bunch being sold as crele polish but they really are mixed colors plus barring and none come close to being actually red duckwinged.

Need to say congrats to you or are they present in Australia?

You're on your way to awesome birds if you're trying to combine dark skin with wheaten/duckwing with full crests...

Polish x NNx (poleneck??)

Father of the poleneck.... (sorry terrible picture)

 

[mcrooke45]

The little black chick actually has dark skin except for the neck. From the neck back it is purple skinned, also its head is purple skinned.
Its legs are a purple, willow unlike Buzz who has yellow legs.
Mark

 

[Dipsy Doodle Doo]

Hi Everybody! I've been too sad about my chickens to take many pics lately. We got fowl pox about mid-summer, and it was UGLY here. Lost several, have several that lost eyes, and some of the young ones that were infected are stunted.
But we're past that.
Here are some of the 'porch birds', hahaha.

 

[pgpoultry]

Oh DDD, that is awful.....SO sorry to hear it.

On a brighter note,you have some lovely birds. I particularly like the light frizzle in pic 3 with the blue ear lobes.

I'm glad to hear that you have managed to move on.

 

[Knock Kneed Hen]

Oh DDD, that is awful.....SO sorry to hear it.

On a brighter note,you have some lovely birds. I particularly like the light frizzle in pic 3 with the blue ear lobes.

I'm glad to hear that you have managed to move on.

Agree with pg, that white one is stunning.

I recently went to a meet up where someone was giving away a couple of NN's. They were so pretty and reminded me of Houda/NN's. I was supposed to be picking them up for a friend. While standing in front of the cage of birds I overheard fowl pox.....yep, the flock had been exposed to it. Then I heard someone asking "Isn't that it there?" Two of the birds had open bloody lesions on their faces. I called the person taking the NN's, did she still want them? "NO" Okay...now was my chance! How badly do I want these birds? Do I risk infecting my flock?.......sadly, I had to use common sense and said "NO"

I'm glad I didn't take them, especially hearing about your experience DDD. I didn't know that birds could actually lose their eyes from it!! We don't get many mosqitoes because we live in a wind tunnel. I don't expect to ever have to deal with it unless I bring in a bird with it.

Very sorry you had it in your flock. It's a lot of work and worry....had a friend deal with it last year.

 

[Kassaundra]

Agree with pg, that white one is stunning.
I recently went to a meet up where someone was giving away a couple of NN's. They were so pretty and reminded me of Houda/NN's. I was supposed to be picking them up for a friend. While standing in front of the cage of birds I overheard fowl pox.....yep, the flock had been exposed to it. Then I heard someone asking "Isn't that it there?" Two of the birds had open bloody lesions on their faces. I called the person taking the NN's, did she still want them? "NO" Okay...now was my chance! How badly do I want these birds? Do I risk infecting my flock?.......sadly, I had to use common sense and said "NO"
I'm glad I didn't take them, especially hearing about your experience DDD. I didn't know that birds could actually lose their eyes from it!! We don't get many mosqitoes because we live in a wind tunnel. I don't expect to ever have to deal with it unless I bring in a bird with it.
Very sorry you had it in your flock. It's a lot of work and worry....had a friend deal with it last year.

So close but so far!!!!!!!!!!

You made the right descision though.