Name That Color.

[southern oaks]

Quote:
wow!!! I really did want a few brown. or cinnamon.. I sure don't understand the genetics involved either. I have pearl gray, pied pearl gray and buff. I was sure i would get pied and reg pearl but never dreamed I would get a brown..

thanks so much for always id'ing for me.. Now my plan for the new crew for next year will def have to change. I got 5 of that color out of 25 so a few of those will have to stay for sure...

 

[WestKnollAmy]

Fascinating thread! I wish I could retain all this info but alas, I just bookmark it to help me out.

Thank you all for the sparkling conversation. I just love all this keet talk and photos of the fabulous babies and not so small kids!

perchie.girl, how old are your keets in the photos? They look so big?
And your pen looks very nice! Can I see a full size photo of it? I need ideas for my youngin's growing up.

 

[PeepsCA]

Quote:
"Teddy Bear" is a term that's been used by a few breeders over the past several years (that I know of anyway) to ID keets that have a mottled/blended head and body coloring, rather than the normal distinctive 2 tone stripes that have traditionally been used to ID keets at hatch. Most of them have a very wide head stripe with only a thin tan outline, instead of the typical fully pearled keet head markings. They feather out normal as they get feathers in and then molt, and other than the remaining head markings you can't tell them apart from the normal version of the same colored keet. As adults there are no differences at all.

Usually, in my hatches the "Teddy Bears" have all been Pied to some degree, the majority being only slightly Pied, making most of their body one dark shade of brown, no stripes. The term was coined for these brown colored keets that feathered out as Pearl Greys because they are brown all over at hatch....I'm guessing because they look like little Teddy Bears"

. I was told back when I first questioned how and why it happens that if you had both Pearl Greys and Royal Purple in your breeding flock that somehow the 2 color genes mixed and produced these "Teddy Bear" looking keets. But it happens with Lavenders, Lite Lavenders, Buff Dundottes and Browns too in my hatches... so IMO that theory went right out the window. I have yet to read or hear a professional breeder's opinion or theory on why/how it happens.

Here's a few examples of my Teddy Bear Pearl Grey keets (you can see the mottled/blended body colors and wider solid head stripes, except on the really Pied keet that's sporting a narrow widow's peak):

And yes, Lite Lavender is a dilute of the normal Lavender, they are shade or 2 lighter... a pale silver at hatch, as opposed to darker grey like a regular Lavender keet, and they feather out much lighter. The Lite Lavenders supposedly do carry both the tan and blue genes.

I know this pic does nothing as far as explaining the Lite Lavender color genetics, but here's 2 Lite Lavenders with 2 regular Lavenders for color comparison:

 

[southern oaks]

I love these pics and explainations. they are so helpful in further id'ing the keets.

 

[PeepsCA]

I had tons of keet ID questions when I first started hatching too, so I absorbed as much info as I could about it all. Unfortunately, there's not much credible info out there to learn from, and Guinea Fowl genetics are pretty unique... it fries my brain the more I read and learn about them

lol.

 

[rollyard]

PeepsCA, Thank you for clear explanation & pics. Whatever the factor is for "Teddy Bear" phenotype (a variant allele of wild-type?), it appears from what I have read to largely influence pattern/colour in Keet down, but not as adults? If a variant from wild-type keet down pattern it could occur across all colours as you have indicated? For comparison, in Muscovy ducks, a mutation from wild-type black is Atipico (dusky) black; difference between the two is most noticable in duckling down with wild-type having eye-stripes, dorsal spots, & ventral yellow, while Atipico ducklings are solid dusky black (where neither have other modifying influence). As adults they are basically the same. Both forms of black bird are equaly modified by other colour/pattern genes.

I had to go back & look @ photos of my Pearl Grey keets to remember what pattern looked like. Your Teddy Bear Pearl Grey keets are different & interesting

Your lite lavenders sound similar to what we in Australia call Silvers. There is an interesting article on brown & lavender gene influence & interactions Here that you may not have seen and be interested in.

Thanks again

 

[PeepsCA]

Very interesting article rollyard, Thanks for the link! And yet another set of color names and genetic terms to make my head spin, lol.

I agree, your Silvers are what we call Lite Lavenders over here. I'm hatching keets that feather out a couple shades lighter than the Silvers/Lite Lavenders which are called Porcelains here by various breeders across the US (not sure what you call them over there) but they have very faint blue grey feathers, fully pearled. I am also hatching out some that have really really light buff feathers, fully pearled as well but I have no idea what to call these. They are probably just "mutts", but I like variety in my flocks, so they can stay, lol.

In my experience of raising the "Teddy Bear" keets from hatch to adult, there are no visual differences in appearance/color once they grow their first set of juvenile feathers (other than the wide widows peak stripe of down on their head, which eventually falls out as the bird matures of course). And yes, it does appear in more colors than just the Pearl Grey, it's pretty common in the Lavenders too, going by pics I've seen online. The most common "Teddy Bear" keet colors in my hatches (from eggs collected from mixed flocks of Pieds and Non-Pieds) are the Pearl Greys, then the Lavenders and the Lite Lavenders, then the Browns & the Cinnamons... and less common, but still somewhat frequent are the Buff Dundottes and Porcelains. The part that makes me scratch my head is out of these same flocks, I get perfectly normal striped/patterned keets too... both Pied and Non-Pied, so narrowing it down with my flocks as to who is hatching what would be next to impossible for me, lol.

Here's a couple pics of an assortment of different colored "Teddy Bear" keets from yesterday's hatch:

 

[southern oaks]

just when i thought i was figuring out this color thing. bam

then i checked out the link and wow! I think I will stick to our colors and keep everyone playing the name that color game..

 

[rollyard]

So Teddy Bear "pattern" in keets down is probably not result of several of the "colour" influencing genes you have seen them in, particularly when considering that the trait occurs in birds which mature into Pearl Greys also, ie, wild-type as adults! It would be interesting to locate a Pearl Grey hen bred from a closed flock of like birds that produce only keets in wild-type stripey pattern & mate to one of your Pearl Grey males that exhibited Teddy Bear pattern down as a keet. Progeny produced could tell a story?

I have digressed from southern oaks topic sorry. You are lucky as have such variety over there compared to us Guinea keepers in Oz.

Cheers

 

[southern oaks]

oh please dont apologize. That is what makes this so interesting. All the different variations and the different colors that others are accustomed to. Please feel free to share. I was just kidding on my last post. your link was very interesting. And that is what keep us learning new things..