Need Help with Potential Sour Crop

[The Dim Side]

Hello, I think my Leghorn hen has sour crop, but I'm not positive. Her crop feels firm but squishy. I can't really smell anything on her breath, but it's been difficult to try, too. She's been in the house for several days though.

I first noticed her walking wobbly and then noticed her full crop. I had her fast about 24 hours, and her poops seemed normal. Then yesterday I started giving her generic Monistat suppositories orally, breaking it up into small pieces (it's been hard to get her to eat them).

And this morning her poops seemed more watery though. Is it okay to give her Monistat if I'm not even positive that's what her issue is?

I was also giving her apple cider vinegar in her water, and after the fast, I started giving her lightly scrambled eggs. That's all she's eaten the last few days, plus grit. And I also gave her other water with electrolytes and probiotics.

I hear her crop working right now, too, grinding away. Her walking has gotten better, but her energy comes and goes. She's soaking in a bath right now because she generally gets a lot of poop on her backside, so I'm trying to soak it and clean it off.

So is Monistat suppository okay to give? I wasn't sure if it affected her poops and have been worried about making things worse. Her crop is smaller than it had been the first day, but still squishy.

Thanks in advance!

 

[coach723]

How old is your hen? Do you know when she last laid? Does her abdomen, below the vent between the legs, feel bloated at all, either very firm or water balloon like? It sounds more like crop stasis at this point, rather than sour (though it could become sour). So now it's trying to figure out why the crop is not moving. Sometimes reproductive problems can cause slow crops, due to what is going on in the abdomen. I would make sure she has plenty of fresh, clean water available. Sometimes adding things in can put them off it due to the taste.
Here are a couple of good articles on crop issues (if you click on the title it will take you to the page):

Article 'Sour Crop, Impacted Crop, Doughy Crop - Prevention and Treatments of Crop disorders'

Crops And Their Story Symptoms, Diagnosis and Treating Crop Issues The Crop. Just what IS a Crop, what do they do and why do birds have them? Anatomy of a Crop: The Crop is a muscular pouch located on the right side of a birds lower neck or upper breast area. All birds have them. Chickens...

• TwoCrows
• Oct 16, 2014
• Updated Sep 17, 2020
• 28 min read
• 4.98 star(s) 54 ratings
• Reaction score: 61
• Comments: 285
• Reviews: 37
• Category: Maintaining A Healthy Flock
• coccidiosis crop crops doughy crop impacted crop liver disease slow crop sour crop worms yeast infection

Article 'How to treat sour crop and impacted crop and how to know which one you're dealing with'

Diagnosing the crop disorder A hen is behaving lethargically, not eating much, if at all, but she has a full crop. This is the first sign something's not right. The full crop points to this hen having crop issues and not being sick for some other reason such as a bacterial infection, which would...

• azygous
• Feb 14, 2018
• 6 min read
• 4.94 star(s) 120 ratings
• Reaction score: 268
• Comments: 288
• Reviews: 88
• Category: Maintaining A Healthy Flock

 

[The Dim Side]

How old is your hen? Do you know when she last laid? Does her abdomen, below the vent between the legs, feel bloated at all, either very firm or water balloon like? It sounds more like crop stasis at this point, rather than sour (though it could become sour). So now it's trying to figure out why the crop is not moving. Sometimes reproductive problems can cause slow crops, due to what is going on in the abdomen. I would make sure she has plenty of fresh, clean water available. Sometimes adding things in can put them off it due to the taste.
Here are a couple of good articles on crop issues (if you click on the title it will take you to the page):

Article 'Sour Crop, Impacted Crop, Doughy Crop - Prevention and Treatments of Crop disorders'

Crops And Their Story Symptoms, Diagnosis and Treating Crop Issues The Crop. Just what IS a Crop, what do they do and why do birds have them? Anatomy of a Crop: The Crop is a muscular pouch located on the right side of a birds lower neck or upper breast area. All birds have them. Chickens...

• TwoCrows
• Oct 16, 2014
• Updated Sep 17, 2020
• 28 min read
• 4.98 star(s) 54 ratings
• Reaction score: 61
• Comments: 285
• Reviews: 37
• Category: Maintaining A Healthy Flock
• coccidiosis crop crops doughy crop impacted crop liver disease slow crop sour crop worms yeast infection

Article 'How to treat sour crop and impacted crop and how to know which one you're dealing with'

Diagnosing the crop disorder A hen is behaving lethargically, not eating much, if at all, but she has a full crop. This is the first sign something's not right. The full crop points to this hen having crop issues and not being sick for some other reason such as a bacterial infection, which would...

• azygous
• Feb 14, 2018
• 6 min read
• 4.94 star(s) 120 ratings
• Reaction score: 268
• Comments: 288
• Reviews: 88
• Category: Maintaining A Healthy Flock

Thanks for the reply! She's about 4.5 years old. As far as I can tell, it's been a number of weeks since she last laid an egg. I can't remember the last time I'd see one, but it's been at least a month. But she kinda got burned out after 3+ years old, too, so she had been laying more infrequently, too. And her eggs have been having some blood in them for a while in these last some months. But she had been acting normally still up until recently.

And between the vent and legs, like where you might feel an egg inside, it did feel like there was something in there. That's why at first I thought she might be egg-bound when she was walking wobbly. But it felt like maybe a soft-shelled or no-shelled egg. So I guess it felt like a round soft mass, tight and balloon like, yeah. Edit to add: She still feels this way, too, just to clarify!

Thanks for the links! I'll give her some regular water and read through this links!

 

[coach723]

Having any bloat in the abdomen is generally not a good sign. Does her keel bone feel prominent, or is it well muscled? Some birds will loose weight, and muscle, but feel heavy due to the abdomen. Fluid build up makes it feel water balloonish, that is ascites, from a liver leaking fluid into the abdomen. That is a symptom of something else going on which can range from various cancers, organ failure, reproductive infections, internal laying etc. Harder masses can be tumors, egg matter, or infectious matter. It's often very difficult to know which for sure, symptoms can be very similar. Reproductive problems are not uncommon in hens over the age of 2. If vet care is an option then imaging may be helpful, but sometimes it's not, and many don't have access to a vet that will see (or knows anything about) chickens. And the cost can be an issue as well. If any of those things are going on, that would be a likely cause of her crop not emptying properly. Most of those things don't really have good treatment options. Some may buy them some time, but generally will not be a cure. How much to try to do is entirely up to you. I generally leave them with the flock until they are obviously unwell, go off food and water, isolate themselves, or get attacked by the flock. If she's still mostly acting normally, though slower, she may still have some time. I've had them live 18-24 months, some will pass much quicker. When they are obviously not feeling good anymore, I euthanize rather than let them suffer.

 

[The Dim Side]

Having any bloat in the abdomen is generally not a good sign. Does her keel bone feel prominent, or is it well muscled? Some birds will loose weight, and muscle, but feel heavy due to the abdomen. Fluid build up makes it feel water balloonish, that is ascites, from a liver leaking fluid into the abdomen. That is a symptom of something else going on which can range from various cancers, organ failure, reproductive infections, internal laying etc. Harder masses can be tumors, egg matter, or infectious matter. It's often very difficult to know which for sure, symptoms can be very similar. Reproductive problems are not uncommon in hens over the age of 2. If vet care is an option then imaging may be helpful, but sometimes it's not, and many don't have access to a vet that will see (or knows anything about) chickens. And the cost can be an issue as well. If any of those things are going on, that would be a likely cause of her crop not emptying properly. Most of those things don't really have good treatment options. Some may buy them some time, but generally will not be a cure. How much to try to do is entirely up to you. I generally leave them with the flock until they are obviously unwell, go off food and water, isolate themselves, or get attacked by the flock. If she's still mostly acting normally, though slower, she may still have some time. I've had them live 18-24 months, some will pass much quicker. When they are obviously not feeling good anymore, I euthanize rather than let them suffer.

Her keel bone feels prominent, but I think it usually does, too? She's always been kind of scrawny since the Leghorns have been smaller than the others we have. So it's hard for me to say if it's more prominent than normal.

And she was sort of isolating herself. Just hanging out in the coop and then being wobbly when she had hopped out. She is still willing to eat and drink though. Do you think it's worth at least finishing the Monistat? Or is it bad to give it to her? I also feel like if there isn't much that can be done, I'd feel bad keeping her locked away from everyone when she at least could spend the time she has left outside and with them (if she's feeling well enough for it at least, and she does seem better than a few days ago).

And yeah, there aren't technically any bird vets around here. I've driven 2.5 hours to the next state over to get seen for my geese and ducks. But some other non-bird vets a little closer have been willing to see them, too. But as much as I love them, my husband and I have had to talk about which animals we're willing to move forward with getting vet care done.

Chickens are what we have the most of, and they seem to be the most fragile. I spent a lot of money on a rooster before only for him to die of a different issue. But also, that vet wasn't a bird vet, and she messed up with a duck injury later that got worse, and she didn't tell me about it, and I didn't know because it was bandaged; I went in weekly for checkups, too). The injury got infected into his blood, and he died at an emergency vet (so I don't go back to that first vet anymore either).

Anyway, sorry for the asides, I've just had a lot of ups and downs with our animals (we take in disabled birds, too, so that's a lot on its own). But that's why we're trying to just do at-home treatment for our chickens, even though this hen is from our very first flock, so I'm very attached!

But at the same time, we've had so many different issues, especially over this past year (they all had a different illness where they didn't survive, but I'd try and prepare for the next time, only for a chicken to get a different illness that I knew nothing about, lol). So I think I'm sort of becoming desensitized a bit and getting used to the deaths. I feel so bad because I see others online talking about their 10-year-old chickens, etc., and we've struggled keeping them past 3 years old. But we try and keep them as happy and healthy as we can.

 

[coach723]

Unless you detect some sign of sour crop, I would not continue the monistat. You can always start that again later if it's indicated. I would recommend that you go through the articles I linked, try those standard treatments, you can try giving some b vitamins, b complex or super b complex, human ones, once a day, see if that helps with the wobbliness. And give her some time, see how it goes. I don't see any reason she needs to be isolated unless she's getting picked on or attacked. She may be happier and less stressed with the others.
I understand all you said, I do as much as I can for mine myself, I don't have a vet that will see them within reasonable distance. And we all have some limit as to how much we can invest in one. Sometimes we can help them, and sometimes there is nothing to be done except supportive care and love, and then mercy when it's time.

 

[The Dim Side]

Unless you detect some sign of sour crop, I would not continue the monistat. You can always start that again later if it's indicated. I would recommend that you go through the articles I linked, try those standard treatments, you can try giving some b vitamins, b complex or super b complex, human ones, once a day, see if that helps with the wobbliness. And give her some time, see how it goes. I don't see any reason she needs to be isolated unless she's getting picked on or attacked. She may be happier and less stressed with the others.
I understand all you said, I do as much as I can for mine myself, I don't have a vet that will see them within reasonable distance. And we all have some limit as to how much we can invest in one. Sometimes we can help them, and sometimes there is nothing to be done except supportive care and love, and then mercy when it's time.

Is the squishy crop not an indication of sour crop? Does she need more symptoms like burping/regurgitating and foul breath?

And just to note, she's no longer wobbly! She's walking just fine now, and her crop is smaller. So that's why I thought she had been making some progress generally! Would making her a crop bra be helpful for her situation then?

 

[coach723]

Maybe on the crop bra. When the crop has been stretched out and cannot empty properly because of that, a crop bra can help support it so it can empty more normally. If it's stretched, it usually stays that way. If the crop seems to be going down, then I would continue trying to get that to clear. Fluids, coconut oil, crop massage, etc are all good things to try. Sometimes dulcolax (get the right kind, read the article) can get things moving if the back up is from something blocking things up. Sometimes a bird might eat a lot of long fiberous plant material and it gets stuck in the gizzard and can't pass. Once things get to the gizzard they are much harder to clear. If it's reproductive, then the issue is going to be farther down and caused either by swelling/masses in the abdomen pressing on the digestive tract, or from the body starting to shut down, and often digestion is one of the first things to slow or stop. So, do all the reasonable things suggested to treat a crop issue, see if any progress can be made. If you use a crop bra, do not put it on too tight at first, just enough to support the crop, but not force contents back up. As it goes down you can slowly adjust it tighter to support better and stop it from becoming so full. Some birds have trouble adjusting to wearing it, so keep an eye on her so she doesn't get legs caught, or attacked by another for acting odd. I have two birds in crop bra's currently, long term for pendulous crop, and they are doing well. I will admit, crop issues are my least favorite issue, it's so hard to know what's going on inside.