Negative Marek’s Test-What Could It Be?!

[ddboersma]

Hello! I have posted many questions on here trying to help/treat my flock since this past summer.

I thought for sure it boiled down to Marek’s disease. I have had 11 birds die since June. After the first 3 died within a few days of each other I got a fecal test confirming Coccidiosis and tape worm. I treated with Corid and Equimax. During that time a 4th bird died.
Shortly after treatment, a bird started limping and eventually became lame. Gave her Complex B vitamin tablet daily for 4 weeks with no improvement and culled. Between then and now, I have had 2 die unexpectedly, 1 die from what I believe was impacted crop (crop was squishy, vomited shortly after I picked her up and put her in isolated and she died), 1 with respiratory symptoms, and 2 more started limping and became lame and were culled. I also treated those 2 with B vitamins for a couple weeks, but they were just wasting away/getting really thin despite a good appetite. I will also mention that during this time I treated for Coccidiosis again at someone’s suggestion, even though the bird acting sick came back with a negative fecal result.

Right now I have another very sick bird. She started limping. Now can’t move legs or wings. I got in touch with someone who said members of her flock became lame after Coccidiosis every time, and only complex B injections worked for her birds, and they weren’t properly absorbing nutrients in pill form. After describing many things to this person, who is also medical and has had a flock for a long time, I decided to treat for Coccidiosis again, and also deworm my whole flock with Valbazen. Then the game plan was to start B injections on this same bird and see if she recovers. She has since developed labored breathing, so instead I am doing Tylan injections for now.

I honestly didn’t believe it could be anything but Marek’s, so I sent in blood and swab to RAL (Research Lab Associates) in TX to test for Marek’s specifically. It came back NEGATIVE today! I’m relieved, but also wondering what the heck is going on with my flock?!

Yesterday another gal started limping and today she can’t walk at all. Has been eating and drinking well and laying eggs. A big maran mix that looks and weighs healthy.

My older flock who is just over a year old now has not been impacted thus far. It has all been my pullets who are now 25 weeks old. No one is vaccinated for Marek’s. Everyone’s poop is GREEN despite being locked in run for months due to hawk attacks (no grass or greens to eat). Their poop is also primarily solid. I only feed Scratch and Peck pellets. Nothing else.

What do you all think this could be??? I’m going to send in another sample on the bird with labored breathing, and now the other that has stopped walking. What all should I test for?? I still have 13 birds with no symptoms.

I don’t want to submit necropsy unless I absolutely have to because it’s a 2 hour drive and $250.

Help! Please and thank you!

 

[ddboersma]

For anyone curious, or for future readers looking for possible answers to their own flock health concerns…my flock tested positive for Avian Leukosis Virus through Research Associates Lab. I’m so sad! But glad I now know what’s going on….thanks all for your help.

 

[Eggcessive]

Scratch and peck feeds may not provide the best nutrition if they pick out the best parts, leaving behind the parts that may contain vitamins and minerals. A uniform crumble or pellet feed would be better. I called my Ohio state vet pathologist once after I thought they charged $100 for a necropsy. To my surprise they would do one for a backyard chicken for $23, but then would charge extra for testing. In CA they charge $30 including testing, unless it has changed. With all of the problems and deaths, I would get a necropsy on a bird with symptoms.

 

[ddboersma]

I just did swabs. I did the environment one on purpose because not all infected birds shed virus all the time so getting some dander from the coop can be a way of knowing if you have Marek’s in the flock. But now I wonder if it was a false positive.

I emailed the lab and they told me there would be no need to test for Marek’s again. I just sent overnight another swab and blood. I am now testing for Mycoplasma (some have had several symptoms as mine and no respiratory), Fowl Cholera, Avian Influenza, Avian Leukosis Virus and Newcastle disease. If I still come up empty I will cull and submit for necropsy. If I can get an answer that might help my two isolated hens survive and walk again, I will do that before culling

 

[Eggcessive]

I would spend the $250 and get a necropsy. Talk to the lab, explain you are just a backyard breeder in case the price is less, and ask if they can send you a prepaid label for overnight shipping through Fedex or UPS. What state are you in? Sorry for your losses.

 

[Kiki]

I’m in Michigan and I was not aware of that! I was more inconvenienced by the driving 2 hours than the price, so I had no clue I could ship!

Call these people tomorrow.

Forget wasting time and money on the Marek's swab.
Get a necropsy.
https://cvm.msu.edu/vdl

 

[igorsMistress]

I have only cleaned with vinegar and water in the coops. My kids are so sensitive to harmful chemicals I hadn’t considered that also wondered how much that could/might hurt birds? Did you have a lot of sickness that went away after cleaning??

Pretty much no issues since I started cleaning regularly. I also didn’t have chickens for about a year, but that choice was made later, and I’ve found a different feeder that keeps out the wild birds but it doesn’t seem you have that problem. You don’t have to clean really often, once or twice a year depending on your preference and how often you add chicks. I do it yearly before I apply new whitewash to the interior.

Activated oxine and Virkon S are both approved for use around your animals. I have a lot of allergies and chemical sensitivities, both skin and breathing issues, but I can use them both with no issues. I tend to rotate between the two.

 

[RoyalChick]

Any suggestions on other things I should test for?

Well, I had one with respiratory symptoms who tested positive for infectious laryngo tracheitis. My others tested negative even though it is highly infectious.
I also tested for mycoplasma.
I did not test for AI because a positive would have meant destruction of them all and I wasn't ready for that.
However, our cases are different - only one of mine went lame and it was a vitamin B2 deficiency that I nursed her through over about 2 months and she is one of the survivors who runs around on those long beautiful legs that now work perfectly. Honestly, if it wasn't for my success with her I might have given up. She positively skips around now - but it did take massive doses of B2 for many, many weeks, along with a boot and leg massage/physical therapy.

 

[FunClucks]

So sorry you're going through this! How heartbreaking!!!

How separated is your older flock from your 25 weekers? Do they share the same geographical area? Are they quarantined from each other, or do you share tools, food, etc. between the 2 flocks? Are they both mixed flocks, or is it just one breed of bird that's affected? Where did you get your younger flock? [Maybe there's a weakness in the younger flock's DNA that causes malabsorption of nutrients? Poop shouldn't be green...]

Since you've tested for the most obvious culprits, I'm wondering if there's environmental factors - something they're eating that's making them sick. Just a guess here, but have you ruled out mycotoxins in food or treats? Ruled out giardia or other waterborne illnesses in waterers? Could they be eating poisoned mice or snakes (maybe neighbor set out poison)? Eating bits of the coop or feedbags, or poisonous vegetation? What do they consume that's different than your older flock?

Has there been a predator attack or other wild animal exposure to your younger flock that the older one hasn't gotten? Wondering about disease vectors here that might help narrow down what they've been exposed to.

So sorry you're going through this!

At this point, I'd be strongly considering autopsy myself.

 

[RoyalChick]

So sorry you're going through this! How heartbreaking!!!

How separated is your older flock from your 25 weekers? Do they share the same geographical area? Are they quarantined from each other, or do you share tools, food, etc. between the 2 flocks? Are they both mixed flocks, or is it just one breed of bird that's affected? Where did you get your younger flock? [Maybe there's a weakness in the younger flock's DNA that causes malabsorption of nutrients? Poop shouldn't be green...]

Since you've tested for the most obvious culprits, I'm wondering if there's environmental factors - something they're eating that's making them sick. Just a guess here, but have you ruled out mycotoxins in food or treats? Ruled out giardia or other waterborne illnesses in waterers? Could they be eating poisoned mice or snakes (maybe neighbor set out poison)? Eating bits of the coop or feedbags, or poisonous vegetation? What do they consume that's different than your older flock?

Has there been a predator attack or other wild animal exposure to your younger flock that the older one hasn't gotten? Wondering about disease vectors here that might help narrow down what they've been exposed to.

So sorry you're going through this!

At this point, I'd be strongly considering autopsy myself.

Mycotoxins in food is high on my list of possible causes for my own losses - I tried but failed to find a lab that would test for that on a small scale so I just threw out all the food and started over.