New Hampshire!

[mithious]

This is what I learned about bio security; Have a set of shoes/boots and clothes for JUST working with the chickens and their coop/runs and equipment. Have a foot wash for leaving and coming back to your property and into/out of coop. Wash ALL items coming onto property ie; new stuff from farm and garden store, vets, lumber yards, ect.(or leave new stuff away from flock for a period of time, if not washable. Even wash tires of vehicles. Don't let others in or near your chickens or track stuff into others flocks. Basically wash all that leaves (shoes/boots especially) and comes onto your own property. Shower and wash clothes before and after working with your chickens and same with going out to places with chickens or places people would go, like farm and garden stores, well, just about
anywhere, if I think about it, could be a place to pick this up

so be as careful of others tracking it as you are tracking it to your flock or tracking it to others flocks too!

No guarantee that this will work, but sure will be a big help. I am now wondering if I should try free ranging, as they can get it from dirt, wild song birds especially...gosh this sure is a bugger of a mess, huh?

 

[DraigAthar]

This is what I learned about bio security; Have a set of shoes/boots and clothes for JUST working with the chickens and their coop/runs and equipment. Have a foot wash for leaving and coming back to your property and into/out of coop. Wash ALL items coming onto property ie; new stuff from farm and garden store, vets, lumber yards, ect.(or leave new stuff away from flock for a period of time, if not washable. Even wash tires of vehicles. Don't let others in or near your chickens or track stuff into others flocks. Basically wash all that leaves (shoes/boots especially) and comes onto your own property. Shower and wash clothes before and after working with your chickens and same with going out to places with chickens or places people would go, like farm and garden stores, well, just about
anywhere, if I think about it, could be a place to pick this up

so be as careful of others tracking it as you are tracking it to your flock or tracking it to others flocks too!

No guarantee that this will work, but sure will be a big help. I am now wondering if I should try free ranging, as they can get it from dirt, wild song birds especially...gosh this sure is a bugger of a mess, huh?

The way I see it, there are two approaches to dealing with MG for the small backyard flock owner. One is to do all the things you've listed and be super careful about everything your birds come into contact with. As you say, total confinement of initially MG-free stock is the only way to really keep them safe from it.

However, that sort of defeats the whole purpose of keeping a backyard flock. I could do all of those things you have listed above and still wind up with MG because I let my birds out to scratch in the garden a few hours each day. Hens lay eggs that are healthier for ME to eat when they get to eat grass and bugs. That's valuable to me and I think they have a better quality of life when they get to do the things chickens were meant to do. I don't want to stop giving them access to the outdoors.

So the other approach is just to accept that MG is quite likely going to find its way into your flock at some point, and deal with it. The truth is, the mortality rate with MG is low, and most birds will be asymptomatic until they become stressed (by bad weather, by cramped conditions, by all the usual things that stress chickens). Even then, if they become symptomatic there's a good chance they'll recover. They may lay fewer eggs from that point on, but for the most part MG is not a terrible disease. It DOES cause losses at a production level, when meat birds can be condemned due to secondary infections common with MG, and production layer flocks can show a significant decrease in egg production. And since it can be passed from hen to chick through the egg, it's a VERY persistent disease if you practice anything other than all-in, all-out production. But realistically, to the backyard flock owner, it is not a huge problem. It only becomes a problem when you want to sell your birds to other people. You can't know that your birds are MG-free unless you test them, and if you test them and they turn out positive, you can never let any of them leave your property.

I guess all I'm trying to say is, it's easy to over-react to this sort of thing. Is it serious? Sure it is. No one wants their birds to get sick! Is bio-security a bad thing? Not at all! Your birds will only benefit from good bio-security habits. Do you have to cull you whole flock and start over? Probably not. Are you going to have a lot of birds die if you get MG? Probably not, unless it is somehow a highly virile strain we're dealing with here. Something like Marek's is a far more concerning disease than MG. MG is just a thorn in everyone's side, because it is so persistent and so widespread.

Anyway, I'm just rambling. I'll stop now.

 

[aceschix]

Quote: Very good summary.

I had this conversation with avian Vet at Cornell a couple of years ago, when the topic was brought to my attention on a thread here on BYC. He said there are studies that say at LEAST 80%+ of all backyard flocks in this country are MG carriers due to the wild bird population and many other means of transfer. There are a lot of commercial hatcheries that DO NOT TEST for it.

As you said even keeping them in a bubble they would still be exposed to the air. As far as passing it through the egg, the same avian vet also told me that only 5% of ALL eggs layed from an infected bird will carry MG and even then, would that 5% egg be hatched?

I have very tight bio-security rules here on the farm. We all do the best we can. It would be devastating when someone has to or chooses to make the decision to have to cull their flock. Your point is well taken that this is not a new germ and the knowledge that it is wide spread is sometimes a hard pill to swallow if it is not something you have investigated in the past. We all want the very best for our flocks. We should continue to be vigilant and do the best we can for this hobby and food supply.

 

[mithious]

Thank you, both of you for your feed back

I guess my main concern would be the health of my flock, then second, not tracking it to someone else's flock ( if I got it )...I did read the link, NH Swap put up to the BYC discussion and read it all...it does seem that the likelihood of getting it is great, no matter what I do, I will take your advice, not stress, and do the best I can to not get it and if I do, not track it to someone else! I would also like to have my chickens free range my yard, we have about 4 acres total...would be great bug control! Still debating with myself! My daughter in Central Maine free ranges hers and has for years with no problems, great eggs, and great meat.

That said, thanks so much for talking with me...I had a few questions, and posted to the main forum, but no one answered...

I am a shoestring chicken Mom...I have reached the end of my budget for the chicks and setup, ect. I got some mixed shavings at a local log mill, cedar, pine and various hardwoods...guy at farm and garden said no hardwood, but didn't know why? I tried to find out, finally asked on the forum...I don't know if I should use them now? They were fresh shavings and I asked the guy at the log mill, and no one else takes them...I got a couple garbage bags full...but a bit damp and was gonna put them in my tractor box with heat lamp, near my house heater to dry them out before the chicks come, in about 1 1/2 weeks...like I said before, I am old school, so all the new stuff is a bit overwhelming, to say the least...I trust the mill guy that no one else has been in the shavings pile...we are a very small community here, so people are very helpful and friendly

My question, should, can I use the shavings? I won't if its dangerous for my chicks...just need to know if there is something I don't know about it???? There isn't a bunch of dust in them...no bugs that I can see...I have it in garbage bags outside right now and it is fairly dry from what sun we have had....also, I bought a small bag of starter that is "crumbles"? Not at all used to that as we had the fine mash back when...is it really ok to feed it to new chicks? It looks big but bag says 0-8 weeks, starter? So much is new...sigh! And feed store doesn't carry the mash, so would have to order online.

Things seemed so much easier, "back then"

 

[DraigAthar]

Regarding bedding/shavings, I believe the main concern about hardwoods is the mold content. Here's an article you might find useful:

http://spfnic.fs.fed.us/werc/finalrpts/05-DG-278.pdf

As for chick starter, I usually buy mash. Where do you live, what store do you buy your feed from?

 

[aceschix]

Let me tackle a few of those questions. Both of these questions will get you many different experiences and opinions. Take the advice you get and do what works for you in your situation and budget.

I do "mash" feed for the first week for the reason you stated. It is a bit big for the small chicks. Do you have to? Probably not. But I have had success feeding only that at hatch. Then mixing in the crumbles at increasing % as time goes on, until eventually they are only on the chick crumbles.

I would not use shavings of any kind at hatch. In my experience they eat them. This will impact their crop and the digestibility of the feed and will decrease their health. I think that is the problem with different kinds of wood. They can be toxic if eaten in large amounts. I know you do not use cedar for that reason.

I have used paper towels for the first few days. Depending upon your brooder and where it is. You could use paper with paper towels over top. I use pine bagged shavings in the brooders when they go out side. That is at 3+ weeks. I know people who use wood pellets as chick bedding as well. I do not use hay or straw at a young age due to crop impaction also.

I hope this helps.

Welcome

 

[mithious]

Thank you, both of you. I live in Whitefield NH...we ONLY have a Farm and Tractor here and they don't sell the mash! That's why I was asking, as I will have to order online. If you know of anyone selling feed in my area, I would greatly appreciate it! I don't know why the store doesn't sell the mash???? I even went back to get some, thinking I had made a mistake

Been back 3-4 times now, with forgotten or not thought of needs LOL They are in Littleton NH.

I have only enough to buy a bag of mash, not for shavings too, since I already bought a bag of the crumbles, till my next SS check comes in...it took a bit more $ to set up then I thought/ had budgeted for. I have a big lawn mower box, in my living room for the brooder box...I am shredding a bunch of those free news papers, and cutting the top ones a bit so they aren't so long and will put paper towels on the top, till my next check, then get a bale of those store shavings. Will the news paper work for temp? The chicks will be here before my next check. I could put an old towel down???? if that would be better over the shredder news paper...someone said it was too slippery???

 

[mithious]

Regarding bedding/shavings, I believe the main concern about hardwoods is the mold content. Here's an article you might find useful:

http://spfnic.fs.fed.us/werc/finalrpts/05-DG-278.pdf

As for chick starter, I usually buy mash. Where do you live, what store do you buy your feed from?

Great link!! Thank you, found the read very interesting and informative. Had thought if I put the heat lamp on it for a week or so, kept turning it, and put it by my heater, it would dry out...seems that's not the case. I am in Whitefield NH. Went to Lowes and Home Depot in Littleton, thinking they would have chicken supplies only to find out it's the Farm and Tractor Store only, that services our area

and for some strange reason they don't sell the mash...so am going to check online and see what it would cost to get a bag shipped...really low on funds allocated for this project till SS check arrives, which is AFTER the chicks will be here...really thought I had it covered...but so much has changed over the years that I feel like a newbie

Thanks again and if you know of a feed supplier in my area, I would be forever grateful

Thanks so much...will post pics when they come...still working on learning how to do that...computers are great things if you know how to use them correctly

 

[DraigAthar]

Mithious, are you talking about a Tractor Supply Company store? Because I know there is one in Littleton, I'm just not sure if the Farm and Tractor Store you're talking about is something else entirely. Anyway, TSC normally carries mash, I have bought it at the one in Claremont before. If they don't have it in stock, you could ask them to carry it. Of course, that doesn't really help you right now, since the chicks are arriving soon. Do you have a coffee grinder? Because you could zip some of the crumbles up in a coffee grinder so they are about the consistency of mash, to get you through the first week or so. They grow so fast, I imagine they'd be ready for crumbles before very long at all.

Newspaper is usually too slick for baby chicks, you are correct. The concern is that they could get splay leg from it. Paper towels are better, they seem to have better grip on paper towels. Or yes an old cloth towel as long as there aren't too many loose thread loops for them to get toes stuck in.

 

[mithious]

Mithious, are you talking about a Tractor Supply Company store? Because I know there is one in Littleton, I'm just not sure if the Farm and Tractor Store you're talking about is something else entirely. Anyway, TSC normally carries mash, I have bought it at the one in Claremont before. If they don't have it in stock, you could ask them to carry it. Of course, that doesn't really help you right now, since the chicks are arriving soon. Do you have a coffee grinder? Because you could zip some of the crumbles up in a coffee grinder so they are about the consistency of mash, to get you through the first week or so. They grow so fast, I imagine they'd be ready for crumbles before very long at all.

Newspaper is usually too slick for baby chicks, you are correct. The concern is that they could get splay leg from it. Paper towels are better, they seem to have better grip on paper towels. Or yes an old cloth towel as long as there aren't too many loose thread loops for them to get toes stuck in.

Hi again

yes that is the store and I have bought everything through them and I did ask if they could order the mash and they said no

I'm beginning to think very few people up here raise chickens????? I DID, just now, find a listing for an Agway in Lancaster...it was hiding in our tiny phone book, actually my eyesite isn't what it used to be and was the last listing. I called but they close at 5pm. Am going to call tomorrow to see if they carry the mash. What a journey this project is becoming! Something that used to be so simple back in north central Maine, many moons ago! I did run a bunch of news paper through my little shredder and will cover with paper towels or an old towel...I have just the one, I think, with no little loops, I hope...have to dig it out. I'm not sure if it will cover the box bottom though...I got a lawn mower box from Walmart, just drove the scooter right out back and asked, raised a few eyebrows that I was actually back there

but they did give me the box and I taped it back up, even taped the top up so it's a bit higher, with packing tape! Gonna make a top with hardware cloth so my indoor kittie can't get in there...I thought it was too high, but found her in it the other morning...so off I went to the TSC, again, for hardware cloth. Was hoping to buy just a piece for now, but had to buy the whole 10'. I'm really wishing for the old days lately

Fingers crossed, tomorrows call will result in some mash, as I really think this "crumble" is too big!! Years ago, when the kids where growing up, we tore down an old cow barn, saved even the nails, and built the chicken coop(two rooms), the run, AND a goat barn, with a milking room to boot, with the materials.(had 6 kids to help) A stanchion for milking and many other little things, oh and a small coop for two bantums off the goat barn. Now, I live alone, on Social Security, and am desperately trying to feed myself as cheaply as possible. Started a garden, 5' by 5' last year, gonna add another 5 by 5 this year and have my seedlings in the trunk of my car cause tonight it's supposed to frost and we have ticks bad this year up here, so can't bring them in the house....talk about being inventive

by the way, my name is Laurie, feel free to use that if you like. I used to be a Maine Guide, now retired! Lost husband years ago. So I am VERY grateful for all your help! OK, enough of my sob story life! It really isn't bad...I love my life, just trying to survive the best I know how! and as healthy as I can! So how far away are you? How many chickens do you have? Are they all BR's?