old feed

[ChickenCanoe]

I agree with @EggSighted4Life on all counts. I hate buying small, overpriced bags of chick feed.
The small feed store by my house will order a bunch of chick starter in the spring and keep it till it is sold which is usually the next spring.
The TSC about 30 minutes away must have a leak in the roof where the feed is kept. I bought fresh feed from them on a couple of occasions. Luckily I opened it when I got home and it was moldy. Had I waited a few days, they would have sworn I let it get wet. I still had to drive the hour+ round trip to return it. I complained enough to the manager that he gave me a discount to compensate for the time and mileage.
I usually have between 50 and 100 chickens so I go through a lot of feed.

The first couple weeks they won't eat much but thereafter they become feed vacuums.

ETA
Moldy feed and grain will quickly kill chickens from mycotoxins.

 

[mamamage]

you guys are the best! thank you! <3

 

[lazy gardener]

@mamamage The poultry feed expert quoted in Harvey Ussery's book "the Small Scale Poultry Flock" states that feed has a useful shelf life of 6 weeks after being milled. After that time, the nutrients start to oxidize, the oils in the feed become rancid. I use a 6 week rule. If the feed is not fresh enough that I can use it up within 6 weeks, (occasionally a week more) of mill date, I will not buy it.

How can the person with a very small flock manage their flock while providing fresh feed? I would suggest that you:

A. Share a bag with a friend.

B. Freeze most of it. When you bring a bag of feed home, immediately repack it into reasonable sized portions. Seal it as close to air tight as you can get it. When you take a bag out of the freezer, bring it to room temperature before you open it up.

 

[mamamage]

yes! awesome! we have an outdoor fridge in the garage that would be perfect for storing the feed! what do you guys think about fermenting the feed? i wanted to do that too..

 

[Boonie Stomper]

IMO shelf live is a relative concept. This applies to our food and to a greater extent, your flock's feed.
Like use by dates or sell by or best by dates are a guide to peak freshness, but the conditions under which the product is stored has everything to do with its practical shelf life. In poor conditions a product can be rancid or even unsafe before the expiration date; in excellent storage environments, products can last quite a long time past the marked date.
When buying use your eyes and your nose. BEFORE You Buy.... Look for visible package damage. Smell for any off odors. Also feel the product (is it harder or softer than normal?). Listen to a loose dried product to detect evidence of too much moisture in that it won't sound the same if it's clumping together.
Don't forget that even if it isn't quite top freshness, but without mold or mildew, the chickens can still benefit. Usually there is just a slow decline in nutrients past product peak freshness period and is still fine for the flock. Why, it can even be better for them if you let some larvae start up in it! Joking sort of .
But i put old beans infested with pantry beetles in a disused covered aquarium as an entertaining climbing step in the coop and the chicks gobbled up every beetle that climbed out of the tank!
Chickens also are known Coprophagics and eat some dirt and dead organics in their ranging. They therfore can handle stale as well.

 

[lazy gardener]

yes! awesome! we have an outdoor fridge in the garage that would be perfect for storing the feed! what do you guys think about fermenting the feed? i wanted to do that too..

I have been fermenting for about 4 years. There is an article about the how and why of FF in my signature.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

what do you guys think about fermenting the feed?

Did it for 2 years... and NO longer do.

I believe it's over rated... and chicken feed is ALREADY FORMULATED to meet the needs of the chickens. Fermenting doesn't come at zero cost. The life you are supporting to get that byproduct is consuming SOMETHING inside your FORMULATED feed. Otherwise why the change in smell and if you let it go too long... the smell becomes sour and the that life (probiotics) die off... because they ran out of WHATEVER they were consuming in your feed. While you *may* increase some nutrients slightly there are also others you WILL be decreasing. But people ONLY focus on the good...because that's what they want to perpetuate. For me I wanna know ALL the detail!

So while their MAY be SOME benefit... people are jumping on a band wagon in my opinion. You don't simply gain something without giving up SOMETHING else... What's the point of buying a FORMULATED ration... simply to unbalance it?

If God wanted their gut "more acidic", I think He would have made it that way. And seems like raw ACV is easier if that's your goal... on ALL accounts.

Many feeds also have the pre and probiotics added in already... if you read the label (even if they don't have fancy advertising on their bag). And in MY opinion... there are only so much that probiotics can do for you once the gut flora is thriving.. it's that simple it will thrive with or without US adding probitotics to them. It's going to be most beneficial to those who have some sort of deficiency in the first place.

My chicks NEVER took to it immediately unless a broody mum was telling them it's OK to eat this. Otherwise it took special effort on my part to get ANY chicks to eat FF over dry crumbles usually for several days on end... in addition to being a learning curve of getting the consistency correct and having at least half my bearded birds be beard free until their first molt from others "helping" clean them off of the feed that would clump and dry on.

Yes, my chooks did fine on FF... NO I don't think it's the magic that SOO many claim... and I wanna see some LONG term, LARGE scale scientific studies that back it's claim. The health, and appearance of my birds, and quality and flavor of my eggs and meat were not enhanced or diminished by FF verses dry. But my time available and life have been enhanced since I quit spending so much time to ferment for so many birds! And in NO way, shape, or form did I save 30% on my feed bill from fermenting... though at least starting out with chicken math... that "CLAIM" did allow me to get at LEAST 30% more birds!

Personally IF I was going to ferment... I would do it on a treat basis... maybe for things that are less nutritious than a formulated feed, like scratch. But even then, I rather do something like sprouting.

ONE bird... FF saved it's life for about 3 weeks after it caught Marek's and wasn't able to drink water. So the FF was it's only source of liquid. I had to cull the bird at the end of that 3 weeks ANYWAYS.

As long as you choose a correct formulated ration for your birds you will be fine! You've got so many things on your radar already that you're much farther ahead of the game than many.

I guess I will note... that fermenting was a fun adventure even if I don't by the hype. So interesting to see the changes... the bubbling and the gasses escaping! And don't forget about raising your own meal worms as a possibility. Hearing them creeping and crawling was really cool too... even though it's too slow of a turn around process for me and I am also moving past that adventure. Most the things I do are for my own fun... my pasture is pretty green and bug laden most the whole year long. I have also done a red wiggler composting bin. When I lived in the desert my birds went crazy for them... but here they are available on pasture often so they don't care as much any more. Hope you have great fun with you MANY adventures in fowl!

 

[Boonie Stomper]

Personally IF I was going to ferment... I would do it on a treat basis... maybe for things that are less nutritious than a formulated feed, like scratch. But even then, I rather do something like sprouting.

...agree! Same might be said of other cultured foods like natural yougurt which obviously is better than uncultured milk ...
What a post... but you forgot to add one of these: ""

 

[Folly's place]

I buy feed that's less than 30 days from the mill date, and use it up within a couple of weeks. Sometimes that means NOT buying feed at one store, and going elsewhere instead. My goal is to arrange to never actually run out, and so far that's worked for me.
I don't ferment feed, buy or raise meal worms, or do anything that increases my work load without it being necessary. KISS is my motto!
Healthy happy birds are everyone's goal, and it's very achievable without getting 'fancy'.
Mary

 

[lazy gardener]

ES4L, I'm glad there is plenty of room for differing opinions. On many occasions, I've posted science based information about the many nutritional benefits to be achieved from fermentation. Fermentation has been used for thousands of years as a process of preserving AND ENHANCING the nutrients in food products eaten by animals AND HUMANS. Science based data that I've posted on more than one occasion shows that the fermentation process actually produces Methionine and Lysine, 2 very important amino acids. The fermentation process also, in many instances produces B vitamins. I don't profess to have the understanding of how bacteria and fungi work to produce improved nutrients. But, when I read the studies that point these facts out, I do not claim them to be false. The natural flora in the guts of humans and animals also functions to produce vitamins.

You have your preference, I have mine. Personally, I don't consider that I'm working very hard to dump some water in a bucket of feed, stir it around a bit, and feed it to my flock the next day. Whether I tote a bucket of FF and a gallon of water to my flock in the morning, or whether I tote a bucket of dry feed, and 3 gallons of water to my flock in the morning, I'm still toting the same amount of feed and water.

The science is there for any one who cares to do a few minutes of research. Here's a couple paragraphs on the importance of gut flora and HOW THEY FUNCTION TO PRODUCE PROTEIN FOR THEIR HOST ANIMAL.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar...www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3144392/

Microbiota and protein metabolism
In contrast to carbohydrates, relatively little attention has been paid to the relationship between the intestinal microbiota and nitrogen balance in humans. This is partly because conventional wisdom states that all essential amino acid requirements in humans must be supplied by the diet [17]; however, emerging evidence indicates that gut microbes can impact nitrogen balance by de novo synthesis of amino acids and intestinal urea recycling. These contributions are most pronounced in ruminant animals that, amazingly, can live on a protein-free diet because their microbiota is capable of synthesizing most or all amino acids required for survival.

Microbial synthesis of essential amino acids has been notoriously difficult to measure in humans, but studies with radiolabelled tracers, e.g., 13C and 15N, indicate that the intestinal microbiota makes a measurable contribution to the pool of essential amino acids. A series of experiments involving labeled inorganic nitrogen suggests that up to 20% of circulating lysine and threonine in nonruminant mammals, including adult humans, is synthesized by gut microbes [18, 19]. Similarly, Raj, et al. demonstrated that gut microbial synthesis of leucine in adult men was approximately 20% of the dietary amount [17]. Interestingly, another study demonstrated that several substrates required for microbial synthesis of essential amino acids are derived from dietary carbohydrates [20]. Taken together, these studies provide compelling evidence that gut microbes contribute to the circulating pool of essential amino acids. More work is needed to define these contributions in both healthy and undernourished humans.