PAINT SILKIE BREEDING

[LadiesAndJane]

So, I am getting some paint silkie hatching eggs, and have a question after reading all the threads I could find on the topic.
The breeder (as many others do, I have noticed) calls her blacks that result in her paint pen, "split" to paint. I know this is not accurate, so I wanted to verify that I could use ANY black silkie with the paints and any dominant whites that hatch out of these eggs for breeding? Thinking it best to use an unrelated bird, then I would just sell any solid blacks that hatch from these eggs, as they will not "carry" any paint.
Thanks!

 

[The Moonshiner]

The point of split to paint is that the black carries the paint gene. With any black silkie it could carry blue, chocolate, or any color and you wouldn't be able to tell until your chicks show that they carry it. I am pretty sure white hides lots of colors in it as well so just buying black from a paint breeder insures they carry the paint gene. I hope this makes sense!!

No it doesn't make sense. It's not how it works. There is no paint gene and a bird doesn't carry a paint gene.
Paint is a pattern. It's the combination of one dominate white gene on a black bird.
Black also can not carry blue.

 

[The Moonshiner]

Idk I guess the articles I am reading are wrong. The article said black not split to paint have a green sheen to their feathers. Maybe most people are just incorrect. Here is one of the articles I have read.
https://vjppoultry.com/tag/paint-silkie-breeding-chart/

Yes many have no clue about paint genetics.
That article was written by someone that has very recently gotten into them and is clearly misinformed and spreading misinformation.
Even the breeding chart is incorrect.
The paint pattern and breeding for it isn't anything new. Hatcheries sell a bird called Austra Whites. They're a hybrid and the same pattern genetics. There was a breed a long long time ago based on the same pattern. Maybe if you're interested in learning you can research it.
There were a couple versions but the black and white ones were the same as silkie paints. They were called Erminettes.

 

[LadiesAndJane]

Thanks @Ada06 and @The Moonshiner for your great posts! I was not getting any notifications for this thread and just saw it now. I just hatched a single paint chick from the eggs (second batch) and good to know I can use ANY black silkie to create more paints! Much easier to find a black silkie then a paint one around here.
I understood that paint silkie breeding was the same as Erminettes. I heard some people are trying to bring those back.

 

[Zemeraire]

Black silkies can occur from a couple different genetic combinations. Extended black is easiest to work with in my opinion, non extended black relies on other genes to make it darker. If the person you got them off doesn't know what the black is, it will take test breeding to figure it out.

With white, you have recessive and dominant white. One test breed with a black silkie (that you KNOW is not a carrier of recessive white!) will tell you what you have. If the babies are paint, your white is a dominant white. If any babies are black (should be all black if the black silkie is not a recessive white carrier) then your white is a recessive white.

Dom white + Dom white = Dom white
Dom white + Paint = 50% Dom white, 50% Paint
Dom white + Black = 100% Paint
Paint + Paint = 25% Dom White, 50% Paint, 25% Black
Paint + Black = 50% Paint, 50% Black

Also you CAN use other colours in place of black. If you breed Dom white to Splash, 100% of the babies will be Blue Paint. Dom White HEN X Chocolate ROO = Paint Roos, Chocolate Paint Hens.

I have a very leaky coloured paint roo with a mixture of black, red and gold where normally just black is. This means his base colour is NOT solid black.


Think of the colours as layers on a painting.

The base colour, in this case black, goes on first.
Then you add any genetics that cause the base colour to change (black extenders such as charcoal or melanotic, and dilutions such as blue or chocolate)
Then you add the white layer. If its a solid white, such as recessive white or double dosed dominant white, then all those other layers can no longer be seen. If its a single dose of dominant white, you leave gaps in the white. These gaps show the layers beneath!

 

[The Moonshiner]

How do you know if you have a dominant black or white? I have a black girl and a white roo.. would that breed a paint?

Black is black. There's no "dominate" black.
To know if a white is recessive white or dominate white you'd have to know the genetics in it's background or test breed it.

 

[The Moonshiner]

There's no such thing as a black split to paint. A black is a black.
There's no difference in a black from paint breeding then a black from BBS breeding or a black from black breeding.
Blacks have nothing to do with the amount or size of the patches. Its more so from the dominate white side.

 

[Ada06]

Yes many have no clue about paint genetics.
That article was written by someone that has very recently gotten into them and is clearly misinformed and spreading misinformation.
Even the breeding chart is incorrect.
The paint pattern and breeding for it isn't anything new. Hatcheries sell a bird called Austra Whites. They're a hybrid and the same pattern genetics. There was a breed a long long time ago based on the same pattern. Maybe if you're interested in learning you can research it.
There were a couple versions but the black and white ones were the same as silkie paints. They were called Erminettes.

Cool thank you!
I am glad I am learning this now rather than many years down the road.

 

[Zemeraire]

Can you explain further about the others genetic combinations besides extended black to create black?

The more common black in silkies is eb/eb S or s+ Pg/Pg Ml/Ml and other melanisers (such as charcoal). Im not sure exactly how this one works, but I got the information from here https://silkie.org/silkie-colours.html

I think the above black is the slightly duller/earthy toned "non shiny" black some people talk about, while the "shiny" blacks with more sheen on them are extended blacks.

Also while trying to figure out the genetics of one of my hens who threw VERY wierd babies, I found that IN THEORY eR/eR (birchen) plus double charcoal can result in solid black. Charcoal is very common in silkies (where I am at least), it causes the darker heads on greys or partridges that I know some people don't like.

 

[Amer]

The more common black in silkies is eb/eb S or s+ Pg/Pg Ml/Ml and other melanisers (such as charcoal). Im not sure exactly how this one works, but I got the information from here https://silkie.org/silkie-colours.html

I think the above black is the slightly duller/earthy toned "non shiny" black some people talk about, while the "shiny" blacks with more sheen on them are extended blacks.

Also while trying to figure out the genetics of one of my hens who threw VERY wierd babies, I found that IN THEORY eR/eR (birchen) plus double charcoal can result in solid black. Charcoal is very common in silkies (where I am at least), it causes the darker heads on greys or partridges that I know some people don't like.

Cool! You are very knowledgeable! I learned something new. I didn’t know all this.