Please help with diagnosis

[Wyandottes7]

While Marek's is a definite possibility, I suspect that something else is going on, especially given how sick half of your flock became in such a short period if time. With no recent additions to the flock, I would guess something they ate.

I highly recommend that you get a necropsy done if you have any more losses. Refrigerate any dead chicken that you want to send to a lab. Don't freeze!

E

X2


Though Marek's can come on this quickly and kill this quickly, I'd lean towards Botulism being the cause. Is there any place where they could have gotten into moldy food, wet leaf litter, wet, dirty bedding, or an animal carcass? Botulism can kill quickly, and causes most of the symptoms you are describing.

 

[Waterfaery]

Thanks everyone,

I'm really hoping it's not Marek's. I spent the whole day yesterday researching and I'm so confused about all of the different things it could be. There are so many overlapping symptoms.

Poisoning does seem likely due to the sudden onset. As I mentioned, they did have access to our compost heap and there was a dead hedgehog in there, so botulism could be possible. They are totally free ranging birds and we have a huge amount of different plants around the property so we are going out again now to check if any of them could be poisonous ones.

If it was poisoning, the fact that Féileacán didn't die at the same time as the other two must be a good sign for her, mustn't it? Can botulism or similar poisoning still kill her slowly or should she pull through since she's made it so long now? What can I do to help her?

 

[casportpony]

Call a lab and ask to speak with an avian pathologist.... The one I send my birds to is always willing to talk with me and they have been very helpful.

-Kathy

 

[Waterfaery]

It's Saturday morning (We live in New Zealand) and it's more than 24 hours since Isis and Ruairí died. Féileacán has just had her second dose of Baytril and we're just about to give her the Metacam and Baycox.

She is still limping. It seems a little bit worse than yesterday, although maybe it's just stiff from not moving it overnight? We'll try and get her to move around over the day and watch her and the others closely for any changes. It's so upsetting watching her. I don't know what to do for her.

The others still seem totally fine and normal.

 

[Waterfaery]

Thanks Kathy,

There is not much avian expertise here. I've emailed the one place I can find, which is on the other side of New Zealand from where we are. I'll try ringing them later if I don't get a response, although I don't know if I'll reach them on a Saturday.

 

[seminolewind]

With Marek's sometimes they are wasting away for months looking perfectly normal, then they die. It can happen at any age. The older the bird, it gets less common. But it's happened to me and others.

The only way you'll know for sure is a necropsy. A regular vet doesn't have the facilities to test for Marek's.
I've had 2 die of botulism. A dead mouse. They just fell off the perch dead the next morning.

 

[Waterfaery]

Thanks seminolewind,

With Marek's, I think it would surely be very unlikely that two birds would be wasting away for months and then die within a couple of hours, shortly followed by another bird showing first signs of symptoms that morning. From what I've read, it can occur in older birds but it's less common. So for it to suddenly affect 3 older birds in this way would surely be odd. Maybe I'm wrong, but I hope not.

I don't think I'll be able to get a necropsy done quickly enough to save Féileacán, so I need to figure out what else to do for her today . Can anyone advise me? I really need advice for treatment now because I think I need to act quickly.

If it's Marek's, there's nothing I can do. If it's a bacterial infection, the Baytril will hopefully cover it. I'm hoping the Metacam will keep her out of pain. I doubt the Baycox is necessary but I'll keep it up, just in case. So far, none of the medication seems to be helping. I'm scared that she seems worse. The limp is worse and she seems unable to control her right leg very much at all. She is still standing and hobbling around, though, and she's eating and drinking. She also now has the green diarrhoea, which she didn't have yesterday. I'm so scared for her.

If it's botulism or other poisoning, I don't know what to do. I've read about flushing the system but I'm scared to do that in case it's not poisoning, as she will need all of her nutrition and strength. Also, does anyone know if the flushing needs to be done soon after exposure? Is it too late?

I had hoped that, since she made it when the others died, she would be ok, but she is getting worse, not better. Can the same poisoning event kill two birds instantly and kill the other one slowly?

She also seems to be only affected on one side. Is that a symptom of botulism? She is able to use her toes on her right leg to scratch, although they look a bit limp and flaccid when she lifts that leg to walk. It seems to be affecting her more in the upper leg and hip. The leg also turns inwards slightly and she keeps stepping on her right foot with her left foot.

 

[casportpony]

If they were wasting away for months I don't think it can be botulism.

-Kathy

 

[BigECarter]

Www.hencam.com has some articles that might help. Charcoal or Epsom salts, I think.

 

[Nambroth]

Allthough it's important not to rule out Marek's until you know for sure, this does sound a bit more like botulism than Marek's. I am not a professional, so take this opinion with a grain of salt, so to speak.

Botulism toxins can kill birds quickly, like what you experienced, or not-- it depends on how much toxin the bird ingested. If it is indeed botulism, your sickly hen that is still alive may not have eaten as much toxin as the ones that passed away, and it is likely she will recover. Botulism can occur, as mentioned, in rotting vegetation, but is more often found in rotting carcasses and resulting maggots and larvae that feed on the rotting flesh can eat and store the toxin in their bodies with no ill effect, but if a chicken or duck were to eat a gut-load of these maggots, the bacteria can cause botulism in them.
Botulism needs anaerobic conditions-- that is, the lack of oxygen, and so it is more commonly seen in situations such as rotting vegetation or animals at the edges of waterways and in swampy conditions(this is how ducks so often get it) and sometimes in places such as compost piles if they are not turned.

Here's some reading on Botulism:
http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/poultry/botulism/overview_of_botulism_in_poultry.html
http://www.avianweb.com/botulism.html

If you suspect Marek's, here is some information to get you started: https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/the-great-big-giant-mareks-disease-faq

Either way, keeping them on healthy feed, keeping their stress low, and keeping them away from any potential sources of botulism bacteria, for now, is a good idea. Again, if it's botulism, your surviving birds (even the sick one) are unlikely to die directly from the toxins at this point as it has been over 24 hours, so flushing is probably not necessary.

Good luck to you, I am hoping for the best!!