Question about the APA Standard of Perfection

[Chris09]

Quote:
I don't have the newest one but the 2001 version I have does have her as the artist...

Chris

 

[NYREDS]

Quote:
You're very hung up on comb size. I was wrong in my previous post, comb size is worth less than I thought.
Per the Standard: "oversize or undersize-1/2 to1". So a bird with a huge comb is starting out with 99 points instead of 100. There's a lot more to bird type than comb size.


BTW-I think this is the artist that's illustrating the new Standard http://www.katherineplumer.com/

 

[lildinkem]

NYREDS
I still do not understand WHY you want to encourage breeding a fault? OKAY it is 1/2 point. I do breed for type, size, and fertility asides from being hung up on comb size.

 

[Rock N' Faverolles]

Quote:
I do not think NYREDS is encouraging breeding birds with faults. But in a show, the comb is not that big of a deal. As far as breeding goes, you have to pick the lesser of evils. I'm saying if I had to choose to breed from a bird that had too large of a comb that had proper wing carriage vs. a bird with horrible wing carriage but the perfect comb, I'd go with the bird with the large comb.

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
lildinkem,
I don't think NYREDS in encourage breeding a fault. He was just stating that there is only a 1/2 to 1 point deduction for a large comb..

When looking at your birds on your BYC Page, the combs on you bird do look small for the breed. The first rooster's comb looks very coarse and irregular in the serrations of the comb but that isn't his biggest fault. His biggest fault would have to be his over all plumage color. He is very uneven in color with alot of white under-color showing.
If you look in the standard under "Description of Common Plumage Color and Color Patterns" is says:
Buff-
PLUMAGE:
Surface throughout-- an even shade of rich golden buff.
Male -- head, neck, hackle, back, wing bows and saddle showing greater luster.
Female -- hackle, some luster.
Under-color -- matching surface as near as possible.
APPLIES TO:
Cochin, Cornish, Leghorn, Minorca (Single Comb), Orpington, Plymouth Rock, Wyandottes, Ameraucanas.

Chris

 

[lildinkem]

Quote:
lildinkem,
I don't think NYREDS in encourage breeding a fault. He was just stating that there is only a 1/2 to 1 point deduction for a large comb..

When looking at your birds on your BYC Page, the combs on you bird do look small for the breed. The first rooster's comb looks very coarse and irregular in the serrations of the comb but that isn't his biggest fault. His biggest fault would have to be his over all plumage color. He is very uneven in color with alot of white under-color showing.
If you look in the standard under "Description of Common Plumage Color and Color Patterns" is says:
Buff-
PLUMAGE:
Surface throughout-- an even shade of rich golden buff.
Male -- head, neck, hackle, back, wing bows and saddle showing greater luster.
Female -- hackle, some luster.
Under-color -- matching surface as near as possible.
APPLIES TO:
Cochin, Cornish, Leghorn, Minorca (Single Comb), Orpington, Plymouth Rock, Wyandottes, Ameraucanas.

Chris

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to put word in anyones mouth. And I come from a dog world backround. In the doggy world we leave no points left to chance. The original post was mentioning the true meaning of the word MEDIUM. And to be honest there is no perfect description. In the dog world they give a vague description in inches or millimeters for each breeds standards. And with poultry it is still under the artist interpretation like both of you mentioned. And when judging, the judge has to interpret the standard. And I know there are no perfect birds. I never claimed to own any either. And I do like to know the true meaning, as per the original post.
This is my first year owning Buff Orps. That is why I have yet to show.
The first Rooster in BYC page, is the first cockerel I ever bought. As you can read in my first threads on BYC, my very first post was to find a good Buff Orp cockerel/Roo which I wrote just last spring. I had already enough decent Buff girls to use. At that time in the year, most breeders have sold off their extra boys. I was lucky to get Dim. Now, I have 7 Buff Orp boys to choose from, for my breeding program. And I know Dim is only number one in my heart. He is no longer in my breeding program. At this moment I have three separate lines that I plan on continuing. And a fourth line that I will keep just for egg production. My number one pen I will use these two boys.

I plan to take a bird with a known fault to a bird that is strong in that trait, or a line with a larger comb to a line with a lessor sized comb.
Thurston is bigger then the standard calls for, that is a known fault. He is over 11 lbs. But, you can always breed down in size. Much harder to breed bigger.

This is Tonka. One of the lines of Buffs I have, the original breeder told me to use this cockerels line on his birds. Again I know he is not perfect, according to the guy who breed my girls, by using this boy will make the color better. So I am taking my best two girls from that line, and Tonka's line and these are my best breeders. For now.

 

[NYREDS]

Rock N' Faverolles :

Quote:
I do not think NYREDS is encouraging breeding birds with faults. But in a show, the comb is not that big of a deal. As far as breeding goes, you have to pick the lesser of evils. I'm saying if I had to choose to breed from a bird that had too large of a comb that had proper wing carriage vs. a bird with horrible wing carriage but the perfect comb, I'd go with the bird with the large comb.

Is that what I was doing? I thought I was pointing out that when one focuses too much on one minor characteristic it's easy to lose sight of the whole.
I'm always amazed by people who don't show but know more about showing than people who do. Even more amazed by a non-judge who thinks they're in a position to criticize judges. Like I said come show us how it should be done.​

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
I do not think NYREDS is encouraging breeding birds with faults. But in a show, the comb is not that big of a deal. As far as breeding goes, you have to pick the lesser of evils. I'm saying if I had to choose to breed from a bird that had too large of a comb that had proper wing carriage vs. a bird with horrible wing carriage but the perfect comb, I'd go with the bird with the large comb.

Is that what I was doing? I thought I was pointing out that when one focuses too much on one minor characteristic it's easy to lose sight of the whole.
I'm always amazed by people who don't show but know more about showing than people who do. Even more amazed by a non-judge who thinks they're in a position to criticize judges. Like I said come show us how it should be done.

I'm always amazed by people who don't show but know more about showing than people who do. Even more amazed by a non-judge who thinks they're in a position to criticize judges.

I was thinking the same thing...

Chris​

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

Quote:
lildinkem,
I don't think NYREDS in encourage breeding a fault. He was just stating that there is only a 1/2 to 1 point deduction for a large comb..

When looking at your birds on your BYC Page, the combs on you bird do look small for the breed. The first rooster's comb looks very coarse and irregular in the serrations of the comb but that isn't his biggest fault. His biggest fault would have to be his over all plumage color. He is very uneven in color with alot of white under-color showing.
If you look in the standard under "Description of Common Plumage Color and Color Patterns" is says:
Buff-
PLUMAGE:
Surface throughout-- an even shade of rich golden buff.
Male -- head, neck, hackle, back, wing bows and saddle showing greater luster.
Female -- hackle, some luster.
Under-color -- matching surface as near as possible.
APPLIES TO:
Cochin, Cornish, Leghorn, Minorca (Single Comb), Orpington, Plymouth Rock, Wyandottes, Ameraucanas.

Chris

Surface throughout-- an even shade of rich golden buff. A rich golden buff....not orange and not yellow or cream. Seems so many of today's buff birds are extreemly light colored. Almost like Wal-Mart brand butter. Always thought Buff was more like a gold pocket watch. Have not had any birds for a few years. Have been looking for some quality buff orpington LF. Still have not seen any of the type and color I want. Most advertising hatching eggs are using a show quality male on production hens. Years ago I sacrificed a lot to get that good comb. Several judges (including Pat Malone and Sam Brush) explained that comb is just a half point. Type and color is more important. I have seen some photos of good male birds, but then am told their hens are of production lines. Hoping some quality Buff Orpingtons will be shown at the Pine Bluff, Arkansas show in April.

 

[lildinkem]

Quote:
lildinkem,
I don't think NYREDS in encourage breeding a fault. He was just stating that there is only a 1/2 to 1 point deduction for a large comb..

When looking at your birds on your BYC Page, the combs on you bird do look small for the breed. The first rooster's comb looks very coarse and irregular in the serrations of the comb but that isn't his biggest fault. His biggest fault would have to be his over all plumage color. He is very uneven in color with alot of white under-color showing.
If you look in the standard under "Description of Common Plumage Color and Color Patterns" is says:
Buff-
PLUMAGE:
Surface throughout-- an even shade of rich golden buff.
Male -- head, neck, hackle, back, wing bows and saddle showing greater luster.
Female -- hackle, some luster.
Under-color -- matching surface as near as possible.
APPLIES TO:
Cochin, Cornish, Leghorn, Minorca (Single Comb), Orpington, Plymouth Rock, Wyandottes, Ameraucanas.

Chris

Surface throughout-- an even shade of rich golden buff. A rich golden buff....not orange and not yellow or cream. Seems so many of today's buff birds are extreemly light colored. Almost like Wal-Mart brand butter. Always thought Buff was more like a gold pocket watch. Have not had any birds for a few years. Have been looking for some quality buff orpington LF. Still have not seen any of the type and color I want. Most advertising hatching eggs are using a show quality male on production hens. Years ago I sacrificed a lot to get that good comb. Several judges (including Pat Malone and Sam Brush) explained that comb is just a half point. Type and color is more important. I have seen some photos of good male birds, but then am told their hens are of production lines. Hoping some quality Buff Orpingtons will be shown at the Pine Bluff, Arkansas show in April.

Hey, go to the United Orpington Club site and look at Doug Akers show winning Buff Orpington Hen. I have been told by several folks, that is the perfect Buff color.