Raising and Growing Our Organic and Not- So-Organic Foods

[Arielle2]

for the ambitious-- well done. I'm too lazy to make one, and this looks heavy.

THis is more my speed....

FUrther down is the presentation by the MASTER himself--he uses his fingers to make the hole. NOthing else. lol

 

[Arielle2]

This gardener uses straw mulch. ANd has suggestions for how much lettuce per person in his family.

 

[Arielle2]

HERE IS THE MASTER

 

[Arielle2]

RHUBARB

Picked up a few things today. Local discount store had its usual selection of iffy plants.

Many fruit trees --- most looked dead. Buds very dry and even the branches were dry and shriveles. BEWARE BUYERS!

Picked two I was comfortable with. A nectarine and an apricot.

Passed on the apples as the roostock was not specified. The label stating 10-20 feet is crap.

2 rhubarb

1 jersey blueberry--cultivated types not my thing but maybe these will help create a permaculture.


https://bonnieplants.com/growing/growing-rhubarb/

https://permaculturenews.org/2018/03/19/remarkable-rhubarb/

 

[Arielle2]

Spent an hour digging aorund to find info on the rootstock used by Van Zvyverden---"it is grafted/budded onto Prunus persicca root stock which makes it a premium tree.", per Home Depot website.
NO information beyond a summary saying this stock needs studying--posted in 2000.
NO source I can find in the US uses this rootstock. None.

Lovell and krymsk rootstocks, and marianna

 

[Arielle2]

A google search brought up this information on the original peaches that I bought from Miller's so many years ago.
From Houzz, jan 2009
"I enquired to Miller Nurseries about their "dwarf" and standard rootstocks for peach. They wrote back that the standards were on peach seedling and dwarf on bush cherry (prunus besseyi) rootstocks. any comments on what conditions the bush cherry might be useful for or is it some ill-conceived way to create dwarfing in peach?"

Very concerning that Van Zyveerden company uses an almost unknown rootstock in the US.

 

[Arielle2]

Another google brought me to Houzz again.

Knowing what I know now, size of tree depends on both the rootstock and the variety grafted onto it. SOme are less vigourous growth wise ( not healthwise) and others are crazy growers. SO yes, the same rootstock could be used for a semi dwarf and a standard. THen the roostocks often are shortened by using their first name but the number following that gets dropped. If all the Malling stock was call Malling, the sizes would be all over.

"I inquired a few days ago to Stark Bros about their rootstock choices. I bought from them YEARS ago, back in the early/mid 90s. Their stock was always good but it seemed that "dwarf" trees weren't always so dwarf, and sometimes they embellished their variety descriptions. Still, they seemed to have decent customer service & the stock itself was good.

I see they're one of the few suppliers left out there of "Superior" plum, so I figured I'd see what they're growing on.

The list of rootstocks was rather interesting to say the least - this was in the .pdf the emailed me:

MAIL ORDER ROOTSTOCK

This is a list of the âÂÂmost likelyâ rootstock for the trees we sell.

Peach and Nectarine

Dwarf - Peach Redleaf (seedling)
Standard -- Lovell

Apple
Dwarf - M26 or M9
Semi Dwarf - M7 or B118
Standard - B118 or Domestic Apple

Pear
Dwarf - Old Home Farmingdale 333 or 513
Standard - Old Home Farmingdale 97, Bartlett Seedling or Bradford x Redspire

Asian Pear
Dwarf - Too many possibilities to list
Standard - Pyrus Beutifola or OHF 97

Cherry
Dwarf - M x M14
Semi Dwarf - Ponteleb Mahaleb
Standard - Prunus mazzard or Prunus Mahaleb

Plum/Prune
Dwarf - Marianna or Peach Redleaf (seedling)
Standard - Myrobalan, Marianna or Lovell

Wow. This is why they're so elusive...

The "Peach Redleaf" is an OK rootstock from what I have found (similar to the one ACN uses called "Tenn Nat" or something) but I'm not convinced it's really "dwarfing" per se. Lovell - fine of course.

For apples...using B118 for both Semi and Standard...well that's misleading.

Euro Pears - IIRC that's not bad...but I'm not convinced that OHF 333/513 are all that dwarfing.

Asian Pears "too many to list?" Nice copout.

Cherries...what the heck is M X M14? I'm surprised they're not using Gisela rootstocks yet. They also use Mahaleb for both Semi and Standard.

Marianna & Myro for Standard plums is fine. Lovell is OK too...also using Marianna for dwarf?

Bottom line - I'd probably order anything labeled "standard" except apples & maybe Pears from Stark's unless you want total surprises as to size.

 

[Arielle2]

FOr the record

"Well to mention a few Raintree lists rootstock. So does Bay Laurel, and they sell standard and semi-dwarf, yet always list rootstock. Grandpa's not always, but most of the time. I bought a peach on Lovell, and a Cherry on Gisela 5 from them. The trees are very nice. The Bay Laurel trees all had severely trimmed roots, and planted in March, they were coming out of dormancy and were forced back in. All 4 are now coming out of dormancy again, so no complaints. All were beautiful looking trees. So these three nurseries I look at first. Too bad they don't carry heirloom peach trees. All I'm looking for now."

 

[Arielle2]

MORE INFO


pinc06(6b)


Hi all
I'm very grateful to see the rootstock list used by Starks. I just got 5 dwarf trees from them and it really helps to have a better idea what to expect from them.

Since you guys are discussing the rootstocks used for diff trees I wanted to share that I have located the list used by Guerneys. I tend to poke around websites just to read odd corners most folks don't look at and found this list located on their website.

APPLE
Standard - MM111/Seedling
Dwarf - M9
Li'l Big - M27
APRICOT / NECTARINE / PEACH / PLUM
Standard - Seedling (either Halford or Lovell)
Semi-dwarf - Redleaf Peach
CHERRY
Sweet - Mazzard
Tart (or Pie Cherry) - Mahaleb
PEAR
Standard - Seedling
Dwarf - OH 513

To locate the list go to any of these main pages- help, customer service, frequently asked questions. On that page look for the heading PLANTING and CARE. About a third of the way down that list choose the link that says FRUIT TREES. On that page go down to the third line where it says FRUIT TREE POLLINATOR CHART. On that page go way down to the bottom where they list the info I printed above.

I have a several trees from Guerneys that I got at a good price. On a couple I have actually ordered rootstock and grafted a shoot onto the rootstock that I wanted. I did that for my poor Granny Smith apple tree that was being eaten alive by wooly apple aphids. I put it on Geneva 222 as it has lots of disease resistance including those pesky apple aphids.

HTH

Pam in cinti

Here is a link that might be useful: Guerney pg with rootstock info at bottom,

 

[Arielle2]

more info

If you're thinking about a Superior plum and want it on a dwarfing rootstock that is highly adaptable across the nation, St Lawrence Nurseries in NY has it on prunus americana rootstock. You'll have to prune, but this will reduce the amount of pruning you'll have to do.