Red Laced Cornish X and project talk (pics p. 8)

[Totalcolour]

I've never really understood the reasoning for breeding to a standard, if the bird can't survive without human help or has a purpose. At least with modern turkeys that need AI, they are bred for the table. What is the point of a big Cornish that can barely stand, or breed by itself if it has no other use?

The thing is, wild animals follow this Darwin thing - the strong survive. When we humans start interfering, we end up (most of the time) screwing it all up.

The bottom line is, NO domestic chicken is natural. Just like dogs and cats and other animals.

So, while I do like the look of the Cornish, I'm breeding for the strongest, healthiest birds. Not to somebodies idea of "perfection", because everyone's ideas of perfection are different!

My perfect bird would lay rainbow eggs, have a small or non existent comb (cold hardy) tight feathering (don't get wet and muddy as much) thrifty and forage for much of their food, be "predator" aware, lay a decent number of eggs and dress out well with tasty meat.

Is that so much to ask for?​

(And if they came in every colour under the rainbow, and some had tiny crests and muffs, that would just be icing on the cake for me)

 

[Connorrm]

The thing is, wild animals follow this Darwin thing - the strong survive. When we humans start interfering, we end up (most of the time) screwing it all up.



This notion is actually misquoted all the time. Survival doesn't mean living, breathing for a long time. It means living long enough to pass on it's genes. So, in that sense the animal is surviving and is the most fit.

Example: According to Darwin's evolutionary theory you would assume two High Income Rich Attorney's that have one child that grows up to be another high income attorney would be fit. Wrong.

Look at a family with low income with 6 kids. They are more fit according to the theory. Selectively breeding for desirable traits is a whole separate issue from evolution. They aren't a species, they are a breed.

 

[Totalcolour]

Quote:
In this instance, if we go back in history, we find that in fact the weak did NOT survive to pass along it's genes. It was the fit and the strong that survived.

And the low income family with 6 kids - they are not more fit and they don't fit YOUR theory because this is an artificial situation. This isn't evolution, it's politics. The RICH are PROTECTING (by paying higher taxes) low income families, and SUBSIDIZING the weak and helpless.

So, since political issues are taboo, I won't go any further.

 

[chickened]

Not to belabor the issue but modern cornish would revert back to jungle fowl status very quickly I think. A full crop would be an all day affair.

In survival of the fittest parent animals will beat the offspring off the feed in a scarcity situation causing starvation.

There is a difference in breeding to the SOP and breeding show winners. It is not supposed to be that way but it does happen. I personally think that mating naturally should be a SOP requirement. Crippled birds are disqualified and if a breeder is crippling their birds purposefully from breeding naturally then it should be a disqualification. My birds are heavy, wide stances and I get ones that mature at 15 pounds occasionally and they still mate naturally. But then again I get birds that are within the weight limits and are average that cannot get it done also... they are culled. IMO

 

[Cedarknob]

Quote: Actually I have offered to auction hatching eggs from quality Cornish males over other breeds, and there seems to be no interest here, though a local has requested eggs. On the other hand, there are many wanting my pure Cornish, I just do not have enough yet to offer any here. Perhaps the reason that only one out of four people are requesting quality Cornish from you is because your sale ad here was explicit in the fact that your hens are not the real deal, and you have spent a lot of time bashing the breed with little or no actual experience with them; though it appears you do have a pure DC cock you are using to breed with. I believe Chickened sold his Cornish hatching eggs at $30 per half dozen [plus shipping].

 

[Totalcolour]

Quote:

Not to belabor the issue but modern cornish would revert back to jungle fowl status very quickly I think. A full crop would be an all day affair.

In survival of the fittest parent animals will beat the offspring off the feed in a scarcity situation causing starvation.

True - BUT, the STRONG offspring may survive in a lean year, and although many, even parents will die, the strong WILL survive so that when there is a good year, they rwill bound back. It's the way of the world!
Quote: Oh how I agree! Think that striving for perfection should be everyone's goal, but that it should be within the SOP. Or, that the SOP's should be rewritten so that we can go for perfection without the loss of breeding quality. JMHO

 

[Totalcolour]

CLARIFICATION​

While I do have "projects" birds ( like many of you), I also have purebreds that I am trying to breed to a high standard. So, when I say things about SOP and being against certain things, it's not because I'm against PURE breeds. I'm only against breeding strictly for beauty. That to me is only one part of a breed.

 

[chickened]

Yes I have and have sold quite a few.

One of the hens I have came from a long time breeder that won several shows with his birds and he was always reluctant to let anyone see his birds or allow them on his place. I talked to him for about 2 years and earned his trust and he finally let me buy a hen (150.00) it was the best hen I have ever owned. I instantly had others that knew what I got contact me for eggs and I sold them eggs and now I can get eggs from them as part of the deal I structured with them from their matings.

Very few real Cornish folks even come to this site because of a few people here that I will not mention. I know this because I have asked them about why they do not come here and they give a similar reason to the ones I posted about earlier in this thread. I think that needs to be changed and I will use any platform I can to do so. I learned a long time ago as a child in fact that selfishness is wrong for any reason, when I am blessed I share that blessing.

I should add that I personally have never shown my Cornish but others have and one reason is I am not someone who desires a crowd of followers at the shows, it is a turnoff.

 

[chickened]

I agree I cannot tell you how many SOP descriptions say a bird was developed for meat or DP and when you get all the feathers off you are asking yourself where is the meat. Probably why I love DC when you pick one up you know you have a bird worth naming.

Yes I have and have sold quite a few.

One of the hens I have came from a long time breeder that won several shows with his birds and he was always reluctant to let anyone see his birds or allow them on his place. I talked to him for about 2 years and earned his trust and he finally let me buy a hen (150.00) it was the best hen I have ever owned. I instantly had others that knew what I got contact me for eggs and I sold them eggs and now I can get eggs from them as part of the deal I structured with them from their matings.

Very few real Cornish folks even come to this site because of a few people here that I will not mention. I know this because I have asked them about why they do not come here and they give a similar reason to the ones I posted about earlier in this thread. I think that needs to be changed and I will use any platform I can to do so. I learned a long time ago as a child in fact that selfishness is wrong for any reason, when I am blessed I share that blessing.

I should add that I personally have never shown my Cornish but others have and one reason is I am not someone who desires a crowd of followers at the shows, it is a turnoff.

CLARIFICATION​

While I do have "projects" birds ( like many of you), I also have purebreds that I am trying to breed to a high standard. So, when I say things about SOP and being against certain things, it's not because I'm against PURE breeds. I'm only against breeding strictly for beauty. That to me is only one part of a breed.

 

[kfacres]

Actually I have offered to auction hatching eggs from quality Cornish males over other breeds, and there seems to be no interest here, though a local has requested eggs. On the other hand, there are many wanting my pure Cornish, I just do not have enough yet to offer any here. Perhaps the reason that only one out of four people are requesting quality Cornish from you is because your sale ad here was explicit in the fact that your hens are not the real deal, and you have spent a lot of time bashing the breed with little or no actual experience with them; though it appears you do have a pure DC cock you are using to breed with. I believe Chickened sold his Cornish hatching eggs at $30 per half dozen [plus shipping].

and your point is???

I don't exactly see you having the most experience with them either.

and I could care less about having the 'experience'-- so what... I have too many irons in the fire the way it is: and my birds are here to produce eggs. I think running an incubator is too expensive, and have almost zero interest in hatching my own eggs. If I want chicken meat to eat-- I'm buying CX birds-- to think anything else is profitable, or worth while-- is almost ludicrious...

Right now, I have 4 Ameraucana chicks that I hatched out- 3 or 4 Cornish chicks- and one Silke cross covered by the Ameraucana that went broody on me-- and so I let her have some eggs.

If you think that my interest and life goal is to create 'true quality Cornish' then your high on something. What are $50 dollar chickens worth-- when compared to a couple thousand dollar heifer- or a 10 thousand dollar ram?

My little ole "inferior' hens, as they've been called-- lay me enough eggs that I can fulfill our bellies-- and have one dozen to ship out each week.. We cannot eat much more than that-- so why feed them to the dogs-- may as well sell them to someone who wants them-- and people such as yourself refuse to sell to...

Fulton Co