Red vs Mahogany vs Copper

[Amer]

See? Before this thread, I never would have guessed that red and mahogany genes would make a chicken really dark like that. Love the things I learn here!



So, in this case, the red bird is the darker of the two? Not the mahogany? Well, geez, that makes things as clear as mud, lol.

Both of those birds are gorgeous though, no matter what color you call them.

I have an Easter Egger that I would consider "copper," though I've never actually heard that color used to describe EEs. Not sure if others would agree though. And yes, I know they are a mix and not a true breed, but I'm just talking color here. When I think "copper" though, this color is exactly what comes to mind; however, she is lighter than your example.
View attachment 1847832

That's a pretty EE!

 

[ZooAtHome]

Home-made pickles ... another fine work of art ... not everyone has the touch!

Not to get off the subject, but I worked hard and felt like sharing.

 

[nicalandia]

There are basically three genes that affect the red coloration in chickens, two very well understood and one very obscured.

Sex linked recessive gold s+(s+/- for females and s+/s+ for males)
Autosomal Mahogany(Mh/Mh, dominant over the wildtype mh+, has no effect on silver based chick down)
Autosomal red(named Ap by brian reeder, could be also polygenic)

Please take a moment to read this article written by outstanding breeder Grant Brereton: The Other Type of Gold (Red) https://poultrykeeper.com/poultry-breeding/the-other-type-of-gold-red/

 

[ZooAtHome]

I would like to point out that the terms you are mentioning come from the SOP or from show/type breeders that focus on the phenotype of the birds(the looks) and not the genetics behind them.

True, but the phenotypes are determined by the genetics. In any case, I would really like a better understanding of what is commonly meant by these color terms.

 

[ZooAtHome]

There are basically three genes that affect the red coloration in chickens, two very well understood and one very obscured.

Sex linked recessive gold s+(s+/- for females and s+/s+ for males)
Autosomal Mahogany(Mh/Mh, dominant over the wildtype mh+, has no effect on silver based chick down)
Autosomal red(named Ap by brian reeder, could be also polygenic)

Please take a moment to read this article written by outstanding breeder Grant Brereton: The Other Type of Gold (Red) https://poultrykeeper.com/poultry-breeding/the-other-type-of-gold-red/

Thank you for the link. I have bookmarked that article for future perusal. Today is a coop/run building day. EDIT: Read it during lunch. Very interesting and informative and a great example of just how complex chicken genetics really are, but sadly it didn't help at all regarding the visual differences in red, mahogany and copper.

I am still interested in seeing photos of these different colors, if anyone has them. Thanks in advance.

 

[nicalandia]

I'm getting the feeling that colors and color names are not consistent across breeds though

They are not, the topic is so subjective that I dare not to comment on any SOP related threads. I rather dwell in objective chicken genetics threads.


Edit. Wow I didn't know I had 10 years already helping around here.

 

[ColtHandorf]

So the birds pictured below I bred and sold as "Production" Rhode Island Reds. They are not as dark as "Heritage" Rhode Island Reds that adhere to the APA's SOP. These birds I would consider Red.

The birds you see here:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/the-heritage-rhode-island-red-site.407294/

would be considered "Heritage" Rhode Island Reds and would be considered Mahogany.

Copper I have only ever seen used to describe Black Copper Marans.

 

[ZooAtHome]

So the birds pictured below I bred and sold as "Production" Rhode Island Reds. They are not as dark as "Heritage" Rhode Island Reds that adhere to the APA's SOP. These birds I would consider Red.

View attachment 1846705 View attachment 1846706

The birds you see here:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/the-heritage-rhode-island-red-site.407294/

would be considered "Heritage" Rhode Island Reds and would be considered Mahogany.

Copper I have only ever seen used to describe Black Copper Marans.

Interesting. I would have considered these birds mahogany and the ones you linked to brown. It really is very subjective. Thanks for the post. It helped.

 

[Amer]

That actually makes sense to me. I have three Blue-lace Red Wyandotte pullets and their "red" comes in several different shades, all of which, in my uneducated opinion, are varying shades of mahogany. My girls are all lighter than the ones in your link, though. Admittedly, mine are all hatchery quality and I think they are technically splashes not blues, so that probably plays a part as well. The BLR Wyandottes are definitely more red than my Gold-laced though. Is that because the GL Wyandottes don't have the mahogany gene?

Yep. That's why you can't show a black laced red as a gold, because they're different.

 

[FowlWitch]

Red on the Left, gold on the right



Mahogany
View attachment 1844886


Copper(only used by Maran breeders as no other breed mentions it)
View attachment 1844971

What breed is in the first pic? He's stunning