Retrievers vs Spaniels!

[Ilovemychicks08]

When I was young my family raised Springers. They were sweet, wonderful dogs but pulling burs out of those ears was not fun. My first dog, as an adult, was an English Cocker. She was the perfect size for an apartment. I loved her dearly but she wasn't very bright. Then, I got married and we got our first Golden Retriever. My children are now grown and we are on our third Golden. I can't imagine a better dog, smart, easy to train, and so loving. So, as much as I like Spaniels, I had to vote for the Retrievers. Yes, we live with lots of dog hair (we call it golden glitter) but it is a small price to pay for all that love!

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Aww i love Goldens!

 

[Ilovemychicks08]

Omg I didn't even notice, lol. Autocorrect knows me too well.

Awww
I do love goldens.
I don't think I'd ever want to use one for hunting but they are great family dogs.

Why wouldnt you want one for hunting? If you get field lines they are smaller plus have a coat of a lab but a little longer. Tucker has more drive than any Golden i know around, but he is field bred. I cant have him around my chickens otherwise they would be dead. Yestersay he almost got a squirrel. And last week he was 2 inches away from catching a dove.

 

[Ilovemychicks08]

I disagree hugely with this, I don’t want to clutter up Dawg’s thread so I won’t argue or explain my opinions. If Dawg wants more of my opinion then I am happy to help!

X2.

 

[Ilovemychicks08]

I would like to add i dont use positive only reinforcements because i use shock collars. All it takes is me to raise my voice a little and both dogs know they have done something. Or say what are you doing and they get startled enough to never do it again.
Ive used positive only training for a Saint Benard that was 3 and had no training. It took 2 or 3 walks for him not to pull or jump. He was mistreated and left outside since we was 4 months old. So when i took the chance to help him i did. He learned heel, off, sit, down, and stay before he was rehomed.

 

[jdfog2]

The dog doesn't interpret it as you not wanting to see him, but that you don't want to see him in that way.

It works really well if it is done consistently. If only one person of the family does it one time it's probably not going to do anything. Everyone will need to do it at least once including a couple of "strangers" so the dog learns that it's not just a thing only you don't want him to do.
From what I've seen in your posts, your spaniel is still a young pup. With him you would want to just grab under then chin and shove him backwards while saying "no" or "off". I'm sure on a young growing puppy you could hurt them by kneeing them if you did it hard enough. And young puppies generally are small enough that anyone would be capable of flipping them over just using their hand.
I don't know if you've seen young large breed dogs play fight but flipping them a few times with your knee is nothing compared to what they are willing to do to themselves while playing. I've seen dogs slam right into all sorts of things and it doesn't phase them at all.

The big problem with treats is you won't always have treats around. The neighbor's nutty spaniel that they "trained" only listens if they're holding a treat in their hand. Not safe if your dog is about to jump up on a two year old or run out in a busy street.
You don't get respect out of a dog if you haven't spoken to them in their language before. They understand getting whipped once and being firmly scolded. They never get that with treats.
And spaniels need a firm hand. They're very independent which is ok but they need to learn that you're still in control. There will come a time when they won't have a care in the world if you have treats or not, they just want to chase the neighbors cat or chicken or run across the busy street to see that kid. You could have a whole bag of treats and he might not care until he's done with whatever he wanted to do.

I've heard countless times that if you discipline your dog you can't possibly love them but it's exactly the same with a child, if they don't get punished and know you mean it they aren't going to respect your commands.
That's why young dogs in their difficult stage benefit greatly from some physical punishment. If they've done something very bad that they should have known better about, and if it's done intelligently and just enough to where you know they've got your point you'll never have an issue.
They need to learn if they don't listen you will make them, especially with hunting dogs. If they're on a retrieve 200 yds out where you really can't get to them, and they come across something dangerous, whether it's an animal or situation, they have to listen immediately without hesitation.
You just can't get that if they don't have a bit of fear that you might decide to drive all the way out there and make them.
This can be taught at a short distance and it carries over to long distances.
I'm sure the same would be applicable in a dog park or anywhere like that.

"the big problem with treats" - spot on! the post above was written by someone that has it figured out!

I started out 40+ years ago with treats. Learned quickly from someone else that trained a lot of successful bird dogs other methods. All of those require consistency and patience. But being with you, doing the training, and getting praise WHEN deserved for doing the right thing(s) - THAT's the treat.

I've spent over 30 minutes standing stationary with a pup on a leash or check cord more than a few times, specifically with one pup that wouldn't learn and was pulling on the leash. A few times of that freedom being restricted when there's all kinds of interesting things to do (in the pup's mind) works. But most of us people are "trained" by our lifestyles to expect immediate results so this is hard for people (Including ME)

I've only seen a small handful of Springers (and other "bird dogs" that weren't in the Retriever sub-group) that were quick to pick up and accept being on a leash when they were young puppies. But you have to start them anyway to start laying a foundation. That has been one advantage of retrievers. The ones I've got experience with ALL took to the leash in a day or two, Obviously, they weren't perfect (I have one that's 4 years old and she requires "refresher training" a few times a year) but they got the idea pretty quickly and they associated it with something fun. (Like going outside)

The interest all of our bird dogs had in paying attention to/ accepting the leash went up exponentially and quite rapidly once you start doing some of their hunting / retrieving training with a check cord. (Don't use it for a leash because you want them to assicated it with only adventure. ) They are pretty smart in that regard and seem to associate being connected to a check cord (and then leash) with something fun and good. Because most check cord training is fun once they figure it out. You can also use a "long line" instead of a check cord. (especially if you only care about them learning obedience, not hunting training. )

Here's an example video. I like it because the trainer is very upfront about "reinforcing the command" and "if you can't then the dog won't listen"

Good luck and be patience and consistent (and practice often)

JD

 

[BigBlueHen53]

@chrissynemetz @BigBlueHen53

What. You're asking me to choose between retrievers and spaniels? Don't be silly, that's like asking which of my kids/ grandkids is my fave. I like dogs. Big dogs, small dogs, lazy dogs, energetic dogs, PB dogs, random-breds, herding dogs, hunting dogs, smooth dogs, fuzzy dogs ... you get the picture. At the moment I have a Sheltie and a retriever. I've had a Cocker spaniel and I loved him. Also a deaf Dalmatian, a Rott, a Pyr, a Cavalier King Charles, an Irish setter, a Lhasa, a Collie or two, and some mutts ... some were fosters, some were rescues, some were family members. I loved them all. They were all my kids. So, sorry, I can't choose.

 

[ShrekDawg]

What. You're asking me to choose between retrievers and spaniels? Don't be silly, that's like asking which of my kids/ grandkids is my fave. I like dogs. Big dogs, small dogs, lazy dogs, energetic dogs, PB dogs, random-breds, herding dogs, hunting dogs, smooth dogs, fuzzy dogs ... you get the picture. At the moment I have a Sheltie and a retriever. I've had a Cocker spaniel and I loved him. Also a deaf Dalmatian, a Rott, a Pyr, a Cavalier King Charles, an Irish setter, a Lhasa, a Collie or two, and some mutts ... some were fosters, some were rescues, some were family members. I loved them all. They were all my kids. So, sorry, I can't choose.

Totally understandable!!

 

[ShrekDawg]

I love both but I haven’t met very many spaniels. Around here, Labs, Goldens, and doodles are extremely popular. That and rescue dogs. Which is cool and all but I’d love to meet more spaniels.

 

[ShrekDawg]

Maybe I need to go to a dog show or agility trial or something and meet more that way. Or a field trial maybe.

 

[fluffycrow]

Maybe I need to go to a dog show or agility trial or something and meet more that way. Or a field trial maybe.

That sounds really good!